Dead battery?

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MattM14
MattM14
NSW
190 posts
NSW, 190 posts
23 Jul 2014 2:51pm
After a longer than usual period of inactivity I recently made it back to my boat and discovered that the batteries did not have enough charge in them to start the engine. Fortunately it's a rather old donk and I can manually crank start it so I did this and left it running for a good 40 minutes. Turned it off and attempted to start the engine using battery power again. Still not enough charge in the battery. I have no solar charging system on board.

The batteries are quite old so I am happy to accept that they are at the end of their life and need replacing.

My question is this - before I go buying new batteries is there a simple test I can perform that confirms that the problem is with the batteries and not some other issue that has coincidentally popped up at this time?
Paleface
Paleface
QLD
1 posts
QLD, 1 posts
23 Jul 2014 5:04pm
Whilst the engine is running, check that the alternator is putting out charge. Place a multi-meter on the battery posts and see if the alternator is putting out about 14 volts (in a 12Volt system). If you left the motor running at idle for 40 minutes, it may not have been enough. Do the multimeter test with the motor a bit above idle. Sometimes the alternator doesn't charge much at idle.
Hope this helps.
CoolRunnings
CoolRunnings
NSW
159 posts
NSW, 159 posts
23 Jul 2014 7:03pm
Mat-Try this as a quick way to identify if the batteries are not getting any charge, if you're like me and not real good on multi meters etc.
Being a chippy, I reckon a three inch nail fixes everything!

With the batteries well down,the engine should be well loaded up if the alternator is working properly.
If the engine is spinning freely then its' probably not charging up.

For instance on our little 18hp Volvo, if I run it on say battery 1(fresh starter) and then flick the switch to battery 2(discharged house) the engine will drop about 800 revs because it is working hard to charge the discharged house battery.
As Paleface says, little charge is to be gained at idle speed and around 1500 rpm at least, is a good range for most engines as optimum charging.
Have a good look at the terminals and spades at the alternator as well for good connection.

Other than that, you can take the batteries out of the boat to your local battery guy for some testing.

Cheers C.R.
Lazzz
Lazzz
NSW
912 posts
NSW, 912 posts
23 Jul 2014 7:30pm
If the batteries are not the sealed type use a hydrometer to check the specific gravity.

Discharged = 11.9 volts = SG of 1.120
50% = 12.2 volts = SG of 1.190
Fully charged = 12.7 volts = SG of 1.265

The hydrometer is pretty cheap from an auto parts shop
MattM14
MattM14
NSW
190 posts
NSW, 190 posts
24 Jul 2014 3:29pm
Thanks for the suggestions guys. I hope to make it out to the boat on the weekend and I will give these tests a try and see what it reveals.
whiteout
whiteout
QLD
269 posts
QLD, 269 posts
24 Jul 2014 4:59pm
You might check out the cranking amps you may have just 12 to 13 volts but no charge strong enough in the battery to turn the engine Battery Pro will have a cranking amp /voltage meter. And you may need to have a small solar panel with a voltage sensitive relay to charge both house a start battery.



See the vsr in top right hand corner and get a solar controller to monitor the solar panel input. I spent a small fortune on electrics upgrade on my boat, as the original wiring was severely corroded and was basically speaker wire. I spent approx $3,000 on a whole new system including new batteries as I had a dead battery every year till I realised that there was no control of the battery charging system resulting in battery overheating.
Best of luck.
Seamonkey_H2024
Seamonkey_H2024
VIC
344 posts
VIC, 344 posts
24 Jul 2014 5:07pm
Very neat whiteout, well done!
HG02
HG02
VIC
5814 posts
VIC, 5814 posts
24 Jul 2014 11:14pm
MatM14 said..
After a longer than usual period of inactivity I recently made it back to my boat and discovered that the batteries did not have enough charge in them to start the engine. Fortunately it's a rather old donk and I can manually crank start it so I did this and left it running for a good 40 minutes. Turned it off and attempted to start the engine using battery power again. Still not enough charge in the battery. I have no solar charging system on board.

The batteries are quite old so I am happy to accept that they are at the end of their life and need replacing.

My question is this - before I go buying new batteries is there a simple test I can perform that confirms that the problem is with the batteries and not some other issue that has coincidentally popped up at this time?


If there is two people on board you could have one crank over the motor and remove the battery tops if you can see the fluid inside bubbling (while under load)in one or more of the battery cells that cell is stuffed
Donk107
Donk107
TAS
2446 posts
TAS, 2446 posts
24 Jul 2014 11:23pm
If it was me I would check the charge rate with a multimeter (you can buy basic ones for not much money and they are a handy tool to have onboard and ashore) to make sure the alternator is charging and if the batteries are more that 3 or 4 years old replace them

A good quality smart battery charger may breath some life into a old battery more effectively than the alternator can but 3 or 4 years out of a battery is a decent life

Regards Don
nswsailor
nswsailor
NSW
1458 posts
NSW, 1458 posts
24 Jul 2014 11:37pm
And all crimped whiteout, excellent!
HG02
HG02
VIC
5814 posts
VIC, 5814 posts
26 Jul 2014 7:42am
You could also check your battery terminals would not hurt to give them a clean even if you buy a new start battery clean the terminals before you fit the new battery.
Can you hear the start solenoid (click) when you try to turn the motor over using your battery = could mean low charge or dirty terminals 90% of the time low charge or cell damage
With no multi meter I some times feel the terminals for heat after or while trying to start a motor, any heat = resistance = clean terminals
In my car if Ive any corrosion on the terminals I boil up some water and pour it over the terminals (quick clean)
These days as Donk has already stated battery life three to five years depending on how you keep the charge up


SirJman said..
Very neat whiteout, well done!




We all want to see your wiring job on those GPS parts you just bought SirJman
MattM14
MattM14
NSW
190 posts
NSW, 190 posts
27 Jul 2014 10:58am
Well I did a few of your tests yesterday and it looks like the batteries are dead. when first switched on the volt indicator for either battery did not move off it's lowest point at 10 volts. When attempting to start the engine there was nothing, couldn't even turn the engine over.
Crank started the engine and checked the current going into the batteries with the multi meter. Both batteries were showing 14 volts so it looks like the alternator is ok.
Ran the engine for about 15-20 minutes above idle. Turned off and attempted to start again off the batteries. It started fine but I suspect if I went back again today there would not be enough charge left in them. Is that a correct assumption? If the batteries are past it the problem would be that they are not holding a charge but there was enough in them immediately after running the engine to start it?
The batteries are at least 4 or 5 years old so they are due for replacement.
CoolRunnings
CoolRunnings
NSW
159 posts
NSW, 159 posts
27 Jul 2014 6:50pm
Mat-I installed Federal GelTech batteries in 2003 and they are still going strong.


Expensive at the time, but they have really paid for themselves. There is no solar or any other charging methods except from the engine.
Datawiz
Datawiz
VIC
605 posts
VIC, 605 posts
27 Jul 2014 9:04pm
MatM14 said..
Well I did a few of your tests yesterday and it looks like the batteries are dead. when first switched on the volt indicator for either battery did not move off it's lowest point at 10 volts. When attempting to start the engine there was nothing, couldn't even turn the engine over.
Crank started the engine and checked the current going into the batteries with the multi meter. Both batteries were showing 14 volts so it looks like the alternator is ok.
Ran the engine for about 15-20 minutes above idle. Turned off and attempted to start again off the batteries. It started fine but I suspect if I went back again today there would not be enough charge left in them. Is that a correct assumption? If the batteries are past it the problem would be that they are not holding a charge but there was enough in them immediately after running the engine to start it?
The batteries are at least 4 or 5 years old so they are due for replacement.

Hi Mat,
Here's my 2 cents.
Your batteries may be stuffed, but don't be too hasty concluding that.
The fact that you have approx 14 volts at the battery terminals indicates that the alternator is probably ok.

However, although you have sufficient charging voltage, if you have even a single poor connection anywhere between the alternator and the battery, that voltage may not able to cause sufficient current to flow into the battery to charge it. Also, with very flat batteries as yours apparently are, it will take many hours to fully recharge them - probably not possible from your alternator.

So, assuming your happy that all connections from the alternator to the batteries are in pristine condition, I would pull the batteries and take them to someone who can charge them properly (auto electrician is best) and get his opinion whether they are stuffed or not.
regards,
Allan
(20 years electronic tech, 30 years Electronic Engineer - just gave my age away )

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