Hi,
thinking of building 5.80 m.sailboat (globe 580 type not intending to sail the world) using bulkheads, and ply, stich method. So, 9 mm marine ply BSI088, for the skin, what about the bulkheads, does it really need to be marine ply considering I dont need it too last forever and it will all be epoxied and fiberglassed over, what cheaper ply could I use, non structural pine CD quality?
This will be my first boatbuild and dont want it costing me much...and any sources for 2nd hand musks, deck hardware around Sydney area.
Thoughts anyone...
Thierry
its not just for waterproof marine ply is far stronger with no internal voids as well as surface quality veneers
the cheapest thing you can buy is good quality materials and even cheaper is good quality plans they will both save you an immense amount of time
+1. Marine Timbers have mahogany and gaboon marine plywood. I have used both types (from other suppliers over the decades...) and never had a problem. Mahogany is heavier and is normally viewed as a "better" marine structural ply than gaboon. Sorry looks like they don't have mahogany marine ply in 9mm.
www.marinetimbers.com.au/sc/119/timber_and_plywood
I thought Bruynzeel sold mahogany marine ply as well as gaboon - seems like they have "mixed hardwood" marine ply not mahogany now.
www.bruynzeel.com.au/products/plywoods/marine-plywood/
Some boat builders sniff at gaboon marine ply............as in don't rate it compared to mahogany............
Note the advice on the Bruynzeel website to seal faces and edges with "an approved coating". I have interpreted this as meaning an epoxy resin but it is up to the individual boat builder.
Would not buy advertised "marine ply" from anyone ese but this may be draconian.
As regards second hand masts and components it is a shame that the Boat Locker in Mona Vale shut down. There are about 3 facebook sites on second hand sailing gear which have a lot of entries - but waiting for what you want to come up can waste a lot of time........
BSI088 is not really used anymore as there is too much crap about with that rating. The new trusted rating is AS/NZS 2272. I would suggest going into a good plywood shop and laying your hands on the stuff and have a chat with the expert.
I used this lot for my recent plywood purchase. I used www.misterplywood.com.au/ and bought 8mm Birch plywood which is a hardwood and too heavy for what you need. They did have a AA bond pine marine ply that was a lot lighter and was reasonably priced. Marine ply bought from a specialist is not all that expensive now.
The boat in my avatar is built from lots of 8mm Brimsply, nice stuff out of hoop pine. Brims don't make ply much anymore but Austral still do. Hoop pine is fine as long as you epoxy everything properly. I have used Bunnings ply and found it good, although some others have found it wanting. Never economise with anything you can't throw overboard. PLy is a really bad way to save money. A friend built a 40ft cat out of CD ply and it was awful. He had to spend heaps of time and money finishing and fairing interiors. A total waste of money as it cost him more to fair than the amount it saved. So get nice ply. Austral marine and exterior is good ply and would be good choice for a small boat. I built two trailer sailers out of Austral hoop pine and they are still great boats.
The 38ft cat I live the most is built from lots of hoop pine and is still going very strong after 21 years. Get good epoxy and ensure you seal up all holes.
cheers
Phil
The first boat I built was in hoop pine and I bet it is still going. At the time all the Australian made marine pine was hoop pine. Marine ply is used a lot now in home construction and there are a lot of choices. I would recommend talking to a plywood specialist. Good stuff is roughly twice the price of CD ply so is really only a small part of the total cost of a build. The rotted ply I ripped out of the deck on Ricochet looks like mahogany glued and sealed with epoxy. Two layers of ply glued with epoxy and stapled with SS staples. Poor shipwright practices meant there were two wide a gap in places between the ply which meant there were perfect epoxy sealed passageways for water to run. Nails and screws through the ply from installing the teak deck just started the process.
I have had good results with dragon marine ply (yes dragon it's even got a dragon for the logo) it's a meranti type of wood so a little splintery on the edges, is reasonably light, stiff, glues well, I've not found any voids. Not as nice as hoop but cheaper
Forgot Boatcraft Pacific they have 4 marine ply types including hoop, and all the resin and glues.
boatcraft.com.au/Shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=56&zenid=b01148efb7dcb482558ec2376861afdb
As regards the yacht you will build, have you looked at other designs which might suit your purpose more. If you purpose is a daysailer not a round the world boat see; the 60 looks great but not sure if any have been built yet.
aacdesigngroup.wixsite.com/acdesigngroup/start-55-en
www.woodenboat.com/boat-plans-kits/start-60
Also;
www.elliott-marine.com/news/build-yourself-a-sailboat/
This one a lot more cruising oriented;
devlinboat.com/product/song-wren-21-plans/
Bruynzeel in Brookvale used to be very good when they actually sold Bruynzeel branded ply (back when they used to be in Roger Street) now they sell a not bad product at a not bad price. The only place to get genuine Bruynzeel now is from Andrew Denman at Denman Marine in Kettering in Tasmania.
Joubert ply is made in France and is also a top notch quality ply, it is available from International Panels in Loganholme, Brisbane.
Boatcraft Pacific in Loganholme, Brisbane sell Mourikis ply which comes from Greece. If they have stock is questionable.
The biggest problem you are going to face when buying decent ply is to actually find any as nearly all of it is imported and with the current world situation ie. the flu thing that is still happening and also the sudden increase in freight rates arising from the recent blockage of the Suez Canal. In its current iteration demand is outstripping supply.
All of the above mentioned products are BS 1088 compliant to the current level of compliance and to be clear BS 1088 is still very much a standard, especially in the rest of the world, but only if it really is BS 1088.
The biggest problem with BS 1088 is that much of it is made in countries (mainly Asia) that have no idea what BS 1088 really means and nor do they care as long as they rubber stamp the product with that BS 1088 number.
If you are buying BS 1088 ply you should be able to ask for and be shown the certificate of compliance.
thanks for everyone who contributed ,I am looking at this little boat "Aviateur 570" it has a lift keel with a ballast bulb, looks like a fast fun thing to sail.
Select to expand quoteLooseChange said..
Bruynzeel in Brookvale used to be very good when they actually sold Bruynzeel branded ply (back when they used to be in Roger Street) now they sell a not bad product at a not bad price. The only place to get genuine Bruynzeel now is from Andrew Denman at Denman Marine in Kettering in Tasmania.
Joubert ply is made in France and is also a top notch quality ply, it is available from International Panels in Loganholme, Brisbane.
Boatcraft Pacific in Loganholme, Brisbane sell Mourikis ply which comes from Greece. If they have stock is questionable.
The biggest problem you are going to face when buying decent ply is to actually find any as nearly all of it is imported and with the current world situation ie. the flu thing that is still happening and also the sudden increase in freight rates arising from the recent blockage of the Suez Canal. In its current iteration demand is outstripping supply.
All of the above mentioned products are BS 1088 compliant to the current level of compliance and to be clear BS 1088 is still very much a standard, especially in the rest of the world, but only if it really is BS 1088.
The biggest problem with BS 1088 is that much of it is made in countries (mainly Asia) that have no idea what BS 1088 really means and nor do they care as long as they rubber stamp the product with that BS 1088 number.
If you are buying BS 1088 ply you should be able to ask for and be shown the certificate of compliance.
The plywood bloke up in Unaderra reckons that BS 1088 is OK for Australian made plywood but since we are now awash with Asian ply it is meaningless hence the new standards. That birch ply I used is from Russia.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..LooseChange said..
Bruynzeel in Brookvale used to be very good when they actually sold Bruynzeel branded ply (back when they used to be in Roger Street) now they sell a not bad product at a not bad price. The only place to get genuine Bruynzeel now is from Andrew Denman at Denman Marine in Kettering in Tasmania.
Joubert ply is made in France and is also a top notch quality ply, it is available from International Panels in Loganholme, Brisbane.
Boatcraft Pacific in Loganholme, Brisbane sell Mourikis ply which comes from Greece. If they have stock is questionable.
The biggest problem you are going to face when buying decent ply is to actually find any as nearly all of it is imported and with the current world situation ie. the flu thing that is still happening and also the sudden increase in freight rates arising from the recent blockage of the Suez Canal. In its current iteration demand is outstripping supply.
All of the above mentioned products are BS 1088 compliant to the current level of compliance and to be clear BS 1088 is still very much a standard, especially in the rest of the world, but only if it really is BS 1088.
The biggest problem with BS 1088 is that much of it is made in countries (mainly Asia) that have no idea what BS 1088 really means and nor do they care as long as they rubber stamp the product with that BS 1088 number.
If you are buying BS 1088 ply you should be able to ask for and be shown the certificate of compliance.
The plywood bloke up in Unaderra reckons that BS 1088 is OK for Australian made plywood but since we are now awash with Asian ply it is meaningless hence the new standards. That birch ply I used is from Russia.
The Russian ply is excellent quality but at the weight that it is you certainly wouldn't build an entire boat out of it.
I have no idea what he is trying to say with this statement.
"The plywood bloke up in Unaderra reckons that BS 1088 is OK for Australian made plywood"
