Didn't see how the vid related to the topic heading but yeah let's talk about leading lines back to the cockpit.
Leading halliards, topping lifts and other lines back to the cockpit has a fair bit of logic going for it and eqqually as mich going againsy it.
One has to ask, What is this great fear of going forward from the cockpit??
The fact of the matter is that each time you put a line through a block you incrase the the effort required at the tail end of the line to achieve the loading at the other end of the line, Indistpuitable.
More often than not, it is easier and quicker to have a hand go to the mast, manually haul up most of the sail with a cockpit hand tailing up and tensioning up the last little bit.
My preference is for mast mounted winches for halliards and other trimming lnes led back to the cockpit.
Different scenarios, different yachts etc etc, I'd say neither is better or worse....horses for courses.
Coastal sailing in a 25ft yacht single-handed, lines led back are certainly welcomed, sail areas are smaller and therefore loads are less, friction is negligible, harbour cruising on a 45ft'er with crew, not needed or wanted I reckon.
With Defiance all halyards are at the mast as you have to go forward to hoist and drop sails so it is easier to gather in the sails from the mast so you control both.
With Defiance all halyards are at the mast as you have to go forward to hoist and drop sails so it is easier to gather in the sails from the mast so you control both.
Once I've attached the halyard to the top of the main I dont need to leave the cockpit again. Sailing solo this is a huge deal and I'd not want to do it differently. My last/first boat had no lines from the mast to the cockpit and the difference in safety imho is great. If you need to go forward to put the reef in then you may as well have the halyard on the mast too.
When I sailed Ricochet, an SS34 down from Sydney it had the winches at the base of the mast and the reefing hooks on the mast. I was solo and had to reef the main and eventually down to just half the headsail. I used a jackstay and harness and had to sit on the deck straddling a winch to stay reasonably safe. The teak deck was very slippery, I should have scrubbed it before the trip! But I had to stand at the base of the mast to hook the tack on to the hook while applying tension on the halyard. Fortunately, there was a lock in the sail track to retain the slides. Being flush decked there is a long reach up to the main halyard to grab the halyard at the head when the sail is lowered to restrain it. I could reach it on tippy toes but some previous owners of SS34's on this forum would need a boat hook! Fortunately, the Aries self steering handled the situation superbly.
I will never ever sail at sea again solo with the reefing at the mast and certainly not with reefing hooks! At the moment the 4 winches from the base of the mast are waiting to be installed on the cabin top. I will make a mainsail slide cassette to get the slides lower on the mast and rig the normal reefing line arrangement identical as possible to Ramona's layout.
Select to expand quoteDexport said..
Once I've attached the halyard to the top of the main I dont need to leave the cockpit again. Sailing solo this is a huge deal and I'd not want to do it differently.
Yep, I'm the same.
All my lines come back to the cockpit including reefing. I do have to go forward after the main has dropped into the bag to tuck the last bit of sail in, undo the halyard & to do the bag up but this could wait if the conditions weren't suitable.Select to expand quoteRamona said..
.... there is a long reach up to the main halyard to grab the halyard at the head when the sail is lowered to restrain it. I could reach it on tippy toes but some previous owners of SS34's on this forum would need a boat hook!
I have no chance of reaching the main head from the deck so I put a couple of foldable steps on the mast.
I'd been assuming that I must be the only person out there that likes some aspects of having halyards with winches on the mast.
Sails go up quickly with your body weight doing most of the work. The winch is mostly ornamental and just used to tension up the luff once the sail is already up.
Single-handed reefing, either in or out, seems quick and easy. Everything is right in front of me with less points for things to get snared (turning blocks, lines across the deck, clutches).
I've done a lot of foredeck work racing in the past. Being safely back at the mast still feels like a happy place to me.
I know that on balance all lines to the cockpit is intrinsically better and that all new boats are built this way for a reason. I just don't see a pressing need to change a simple system that works well for me on my current boat.
A configuration that I really don't like is the half way in-between set-up resulting in a cluster of winches and cleats mounted on the deck / coach-roof near the base of the mast. Seems to combine the worst of a both worlds to me in one diabolical package.
Special bonus points for also having a wire main halyard with the finger-slicer tactically mounted so that you have the boom swinging over your head as you operate it.
No doubt this setup has some much-loved merits that I've overlooked.
Select to expand quotewildemann said..
I've done a lot of foredeck work racing in the past. Being safely back at the mast still feels like a happy place to me.
As an ex-FDU member, great comment!
Now if I can dig out an old FDU t-shirt
I assume the old FDU got amalgamated with some super union with the advent of assymetrics.
Probably part of the INDBU or the OATSA.
i would rather keep the spaghetti farm spread out the tails of 4 halyards 3 reef points 2 toping lifts vang cungingham outhaul lazy jacks 2 jib sheets kite sheets tweakers downhauls mainsheet traveler is all fine when your sailing a40 footer with a trimmer at the console constantly tiding up but on a small yacht with limited cockpit space i have enough trouble keeping the sheets tidy
Select to expand quoteboty said..
i would rather keep the spaghetti farm spread out the tails of 4 halyards 3 reef points 2 toping lifts vang cungingham outhaul lazy jacks 2 jib sheets kite sheets tweakers downhauls mainsheet traveler is all fine when your sailing a40 footer with a trimmer at the console constantly tiding up but on a small yacht with limited cockpit space i have enough trouble keeping the sheets tidy
With everything back to the cockpit all those lines can easily be placed in bags. The alternative is a big bunch of bastards hanging off the winches at the mast. Friend of mine has bags on the forward end of the boom for the rope tails. That would be a real distraction for me.
I'm with Ramona, back to the cockpit.
In my experience short handed sailing in the open ocean the foredeck or mast is not the place to have crew unless you really have to, or are racing with dedicated crew and the risk is deemed acceptable.
I have vivid memories of Havefun at the mast when we broke the boom at the goose neck in horrible weather and there was no other option. Every time a big breaking wave came he was looking down a vertical drop of maybe 8-10 metres from his eye height as we dropped into the next trough.
To do that just to put a reef in or take it out just isn't worth it. If he went over the side, even clipped on, getting him back was probably not an option.
I like halyards and reefing at the mast with an uncluttered hard dodger.
not popular but who cares what people think.
set it up how you like.
I should add to my earlier post that if you buy a yacht that has the reefing at the mast check the system before you sail home. I raised the mainsail and went through the reefing routine at the mooring. Because of the sail slide track lock the two tack reef rings would not fit down on to the horns. I made a couple of rope loops for the rings for the trip. If I had crawled up to the mast with a winch handle in one hand and found I could not get the tack secured I would be seriously pissed off!
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
I should add to my earlier post that if you buy a yacht that has the reefing at the mast check the system before you sail home. I raised the mainsail and went through the reefing routine at the mooring. Because of the sail slide track lock the two tack reef rings would not fit down on to the horns. I made a couple of rope loops for the rings for the trip. If I had crawled up to the mast with a winch handle in one hand and found I could not get the tack secured I would be seriously pissed off!
if you have to go to the mast to hook the tack in you may as well do the halyards while your there or you could by more shares in the rope company add a bit more compexity and bring those back to the cockpit as well
My winch placement worked on the premise that anything to do with a kite mean you are on the foredeck anyway, so winches on the mast for:
- Spinnaker halyard (loose luffed);
- Gennaker halyard (wire luff/furler); and
- Headsail halyard (it's on a furler, so it never gets touched except for tightening/easing luff)
Cockpit winches do:
- main halyard;
- staysail halyard;
- headsail furler;
- reefs, cunningham, outhaul;
- inner forestay tensioner (soft); and
- bowsprit lock/release and tension (soft).
So you stay in the cockpit for all the heavy weather controls and the mast mount winches for playing with kites or for dropping the headsail.
I did still have to go forward to set the tack when reefing, but dedicated snap shackles on the mast make it super quick and easy.
A spare block at the base of the mast gave you the ability to bypass the mast mounted halyards through to the cockpit winches if you needed to.
First off I have to apologize for what turned out to be a misleading title.
The NO!!! as in All lines back to the cockpit. NO!!! was meant to mean "No. there aren't any"
Not to mean "No way. I don't want them" or "No. I don't like them."
I have most lines back to the cockpit and would never change.
The No!! was also meant to mean, No push or pullpit. No stauntions and life lines. No anchor well.
No nav lights, no roller furling.
In fact almost no nothing on deck. I thought that was something quite unusual. No nav table seat?
Of course this a rich man's day sailor and she is rigged to his preference.
I could imagine him pulling up in a custom rod with no door handles.
gary
Select to expand quotegarymalmgren said..
First off I have to apologize for what turned out to be a misleading title.
The NO!!! as in All lines back to the cockpit. NO!!! was meant to mean "No. there aren't any"
Not to mean "No way. I don't want them" or "No. I don't like them."
I have most lines back to the cockpit and would never change.
The No!! was also meant to mean, No push or pullpit. No stauntions and life lines. No anchor well.
No nav lights, no roller furling.
In fact almost no nothing on deck. I thought that was something quite unusual. No nav table seat?
Of course this a rich man's day sailor and she is rigged to his preference.
I could imagine him pulling up in a custom rod with no door handles.
gary
I kinda like it .
It's interesting though that he shortened the cabintop to make the foredeck all flat and roomy. And then took all the lifelines off it and moved the toerail inwards 
.
Select to expand quoteboty said..Ramona said..
I
if you have to go to the mast to hook the tack in you may as well do the halyards while your there or you could by more shares in the rope company add a bit more compexity and bring those back to the cockpit as well
I can assure you those hooks are coming off! Interestingly the halyards etc that are on the boat now that led to the deck mounted winches and cleats are easily long enough to reach the winch mount position on the rear of the cabin so no money is being spent there!
If we are talking sloops I am all for a winch on each side of the mast to handle the two important haulyards, halyards,hailiards, however they are meant to be spelt, being the main and the jib.
The mainsail and the primary head sail should be able to be hoisted in 60 to 90 seconds and lowered in 30 seconds. Those two lines led back to the cockpit makes that process longer.
All other lines such as topping lifts, reefing lines, cunninghams and downhauls led back to the cockpit makes perfect sense.
Being able to reef the main from the cockpit is a great idea but it is rare to see a yacht properly set up for that.
I sailed on a Phillip 43 with twin forestays across the Tasman. It was a dream to change head sails.
As a solo sailor the only time I go forward is to drop the anchor or raise it!
Been there done that with winches at the mast, now very happy and safe with everything BACK at the cockpit!!
