Campania District High School

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General Sail making Construction Blokarts Events & Competition

tassiefubar

TAS

113 posts

tassiefubar

TAS, 113 posts

21 Sep 2010 4:26pm

Hi there
Our school is miles from the sea so we decided to get into land yachting.
We have had heaps of fun designing and building these contraptions. Most of the bits have been sourced from tip shops. Our kids are getting really expert at sailing.

Gizmo

2865 posts

Gizmo

SA, 2865 posts

21 Sep 2010 4:05pm

Congratulations.... well done an ideal school project, I hope you also include the theory of sailing and how wings / sails work

Be insistent on safety gear, helmets and closed shoes. (as your picture shows)

aus230

1660 posts

aus230

WA, 1660 posts

21 Sep 2010 2:54pm

Now that is great to see, Congatulations looks like they are having a great time.
Cheers
aus230

Hiko

1229 posts

Hiko

1229 posts

21 Sep 2010 4:55pm

Well done!! Lots of good skills to be learnt from designing building and sailing these
Maybe you could set up interschool regattas and really spread the word

landyacht

5921 posts

landyacht

WA, 5921 posts

21 Sep 2010 8:28pm

top effort folks great to people just doing it

j murray

947 posts

j murray

SA, 947 posts

22 Sep 2010 10:25am

Yep!!!, thanks kid's great adventure in science,

you must have

excellent and interesting teachers down there.

I recon there

will be many schools just a wee bit jealous.......Happy sailing

tassiefubar

TAS

113 posts

tassiefubar

TAS, 113 posts

22 Sep 2010 4:54pm

Hi again
Thanks for the support and nice comments.

The troops are on a very fast and fun learning curve.....some of them are getting very skilled. We would like to get other schools involved and have some inter-school sailing days etc.
As you can see from the photo we have progressed??? to running with a jib. After looking at some skiff sailing some of them want to try using a shy kite as well! I don't really think this is pratical though.
We are now in the process of designing and building our third contraption. Each has been an improvement on the previous one.....the 2nd one is so much faster and easier to handle than the first. We have obtained plastic seats from stock cars which have now been banned for use in competition. Combined with full racing harnesses they offer a high degree of protection.
When I have mastered the use of applying photos etc to the forum I'll post pictures of the design and build process as we go along. (if anyone is interested!) I'm a regular ludditewith computers, consequently this may not be very successful.

hills

1622 posts

hills

SA, 1622 posts

22 Sep 2010 7:20pm

Great stuff!! We're definitely very interested, please keep us updated with pics and details!!

Gizmo

2865 posts

Gizmo

SA, 2865 posts

22 Sep 2010 7:30pm

If there was interest in "Inter School" meetings, maybe a "standard" yacht might be the answer... (the LLMini would be ideal).

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Land-Yacht-Sailing/Construction/Build-a-Landyacht-Lake-Lefroy-Mini-Yacht/

landyacht

5921 posts

landyacht

WA, 5921 posts

22 Sep 2010 9:08pm

Gizmo said...

If there was interest in "Inter School" meetings, maybe a "standard" yacht might be the answer... (the LLMini would be ideal).

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Land-Yacht-Sailing/Construction/Build-a-Landyacht-Lake-Lefroy-Mini-Yacht/

with an emphasis on recycling and NOT spending lots of money

which these kids have realistically earned a degree in Landyacht design from the Lake Lefroy International University Of Landsailing

cisco

QLD

12365 posts

cisco

QLD, 12365 posts

22 Sep 2010 11:18pm

landyacht said...

with an emphasis on recycling and NOT spending lots of money

which these kids have realistically earned a degree in Landyacht design from the Lake Lefroy International University Of Landsailing

The degree of course is for designing and building land yachts not "CONTRAPTIONS" or "HURDY GURDIES".

landyacht

5921 posts

landyacht

WA, 5921 posts

22 Sep 2010 9:24pm

I dont recall seeing you at the last chancellors meeting cisco

j murray

947 posts

j murray

SA, 947 posts

23 Sep 2010 10:34am

I don't believe that going with the LLM is a good thing, as it narrows one's

thinking and development. Going in ones own direction is the challenge and

maybe you eventually come up with some new age thinking that blitz's the

world as it now stands, [nothing personal here to LLM or BC or others] .

oncoming changes around the world will need plenty of people who think freely

and differently. All The best to all.

Gizmo

2865 posts

Gizmo

SA, 2865 posts

23 Sep 2010 3:15pm

j murray said...

I don't believe that going with the LLM is a good thing, as it narrows one's

thinking and development. Going in ones own direction is the challenge and

maybe you eventually come up with some new age thinking that blitz's the

world as it now stands, [nothing personal here to LLM or BC or others] .

oncoming changes around the world will need plenty of people who think freely

and differently. All The best to all.

SORRY... but for schools and people starting with land sailing (and intend building) the LLMini would be the BEST and ONLY way to go.

Once the students are proficient at design and building then they will hopefully go off and create something new in their adult life.

Over the years hundreds of yachts have been built used for a while and then discarded never see active use again, the design of the LLMini is the culmination of years and hundreds of built yachts, the best features of all of these have been condensed into the LLMini.
Students of secondary schools should build a tried and tested design within the students/schools limits.

tassiefubar

TAS

113 posts

tassiefubar

TAS, 113 posts

23 Sep 2010 6:30pm

I think that the research, design and construction aspects of the process have been both extremely enjoyable and educationally sound on multiple levels. It has allowed the group to experience an activity which has facilitated both communication and rapidly assisted in developing new skills. The sailing and subsequent evaluation was not just exhilarating, I'm sure it also fostered a very pleasing degree of innovation.....This allowed us to produce a far superior machine in the second one and also highlighted defects in the first which have been easily remedied. Both will out perform certain factory produced models from NZ. I do need to clarify one point though....coming from a very long background of sailing has been a key to the success of the program. Consequently some schools may well benefit from going down a different path and adopting stock plans.

Gizmo

2865 posts

Gizmo

SA, 2865 posts

23 Sep 2010 8:00pm

Just keep a close eye on the spoked rear wheels they DO collapse or the tyres roll of at the worst possible moments (just past personal experience) ...OUCH !!
Metal spokes tended to snap suddenly, plastic spoke wheels the tyres seemed to roll off then the rim snaps or is damaged.

tassiefubar

TAS

113 posts

tassiefubar

TAS, 113 posts

23 Sep 2010 9:34pm

Hi Gismo
They look like fun.
Had an interesting experience with some "carbon fibre" wheel chair wheels. One of the troops liberated them from a tip shop, said they looked the go and put them on. They lasted perhaps 100 m before we found out they were not carbon fibre, the resulting crash was more spectacular than harmful and provided us with a source of endless ribbing for test pilot Justin.
We are in the process of fitting a set of plastic wheels from a "Dogg Bike". I told the distributer I needed a set of indestructable wheels so as we could keep the kids somewhat safe. He said these were tested to 2 Tongans (whatever that means!) They seem pretty good. We are quite open to advice on wheels though as we have found them hard to find.
The ones we are using at the moment are from an old pram found on the tip...we have cheated somewhat by installing good quality sealed bearings. The front wheels are just as you see them.....from kiddies' bikes....we have "sealed" the bearings using silicon bathroom sealant....we have driven them into the sea on numerous occassions and they still spin freely. I am loathe to fiddle with them or look inside while they still spin smoothly!

hills

1622 posts

hills

SA, 1622 posts

23 Sep 2010 9:15pm

Yeah I can see J Murrays point of view. Innovating, experimenting, testing and improving would definitely be a part of the enjoyment and learning experience. Well it would be for me anyway.

You're doing a great job, well done!!

cisco

QLD

12365 posts

cisco

QLD, 12365 posts

23 Sep 2010 11:52pm

landyacht said...

I dont recall seeing you at the last chancellors meeting cisco

Chancellors Meeting!!!

Well, despite having produced an LL Mini that whups the pants off any blokart around, recording a magnificent photo essay of the build process enabling "Blind Freddie" to copy the build and risking life, limb and reputation on the proving grounds, I do not recall ever having received a graduates certificate from the "Lake Lefroy University of Land Yachting", let alone elevation to the lofty heights of a chancellorship.

It has not bothered me too much as I put it down to a secretarial oversight.

The wind might have been up and the silly sheila went sailing instead of attending to the mail.

I would be quite happy to overlook the matter if a set of specs for the "Stiffy Mast" was to arrive in my inbox.

The use of the word "Contraption" when referring to the fine examples of land yachts produced by the students in Tassie gets up the nose a bit.

The "Newt Amphibious" is a contraption.

tassiefubar

TAS

113 posts

tassiefubar

TAS, 113 posts

26 Sep 2010 9:39pm

Thought I'd better resurect the contraversy and explain where we started and why.
We were heavilly involved at CDHS with sail training on "Kristina" but found Tas.Education Dept. guidelines rather restrictive. Our small staff and lack of enough people with the required expertise ment that we were unable to sustain the activity to a satisfactory degree. Enter the land yachts......we are situated in a dry and windy part of the state, somewhat more suitable for this activity. Lots of sails and booms had started appearing at local tip shops ....so we cornered the market and snapped up lots of bargains. $5 for a mint condition sail seems pretty good. We had seen some Blocarts but had found them too expensive, some internet searching led to come up with some ideas for our first attempt. This was such a success that we launched into research, design and construction of our second one in quick succession.
It has only been in the last few weeks that we have really become engaged with this excellent forum. The wealth of knowledge available will be greatly appreciated as we continue with our program. At this stage we are not fully convinced either way......but are leaning more towards innovation and learning from our mistakes and successes.

Gizmo

2865 posts

Gizmo

SA, 2865 posts

26 Sep 2010 9:38pm

Sail training is such a wonderful way for people to develop, I went to an all boys technical school, the school couldn't get a football team on the field but we could get 12 boats on the water for sports days. As a students we were involved in making sailing several boats and canoes for school use, I often look back with very fond memories of those times.
I am aware that you wish to get the students to design land yachts from scratch and that's great to get them sailing but personally I feel it would be better to stay within some very simple design and size parameters to create some uniformity within the yachts rather than be open slather.
Over the years the people on this forum have tried many many combinations of wheels, sails, construction techniques and designs and have ended up with what you see in the construction thread of the LLMini.
For example in a school cooking class would the students follow a basic recipe to bake a cake / scones, or in woodwork and the project was a chair would there be some design parameters or would it be an open slather project?

Any which way to get people land sailing is a positive..... well done !!!

tassiefubar

TAS

113 posts

tassiefubar

TAS, 113 posts

27 Sep 2010 10:33pm

Hi there
I thought I might include some pictures of Human Powered Vehicles that our school has been involved in. We design, build and race these fun things. They are not so far removed from land yachts........and we intend trying to combine aspects of both in our next project.

j murray

947 posts

j murray

SA, 947 posts

28 Sep 2010 9:39am

HEY !! what a great school, do you need any mature aged scholars ?

If only my school days had been so interesting. It stands to reason that you

will produce individuals, M+F who will challenge throughout their life, there are

enough sheep within Aussie [see Tassi] That's a great education, strong

enough to lead instead of following. They will by their failures learn humility too.

Congratulations to all the staff and a flying kangaroo stamp to the young

engineers.

<<<the mob at school>>

teachers

hills

1622 posts

hills

SA, 1622 posts

28 Sep 2010 3:09pm

Hear hear Joe! I'm tempted to move my family down to Tas so my sons can go to CDHS!!

Tell your students they're very welcome to join this forum and tell us how they're going, like Bodie and Joe have. I'm sure we can learn a lot from their work too!

We promise we'll try and keep the language appropriate - right guys!

... Guys?!?

Clemco

430 posts

Clemco

430 posts

28 Sep 2010 6:25pm

Gizmo said...

Sorry Gizmo...I'm with Joe on this one. Restricting the curriculum to "one design" is not the "only way to go" but just one way. Yes, following "the plan" will develop construction skills, but surely that is not the only skill that could be developed in the students.
Perhaps the students could form two teams to compete against each other. One team being "The Constructors" following "the plan", and the other team, "The Free Radicals" would come up with their own plan. As long as some practical size parameters were set, like maximum footprint and maximum maximum sail area, you would have a more interesting learning environment.
LONG LIVE THE FREE RADICALS!

Gizmo

2865 posts

Gizmo

SA, 2865 posts

28 Sep 2010 8:19pm

Gizmo said...
I am aware that you wish to get the students to design land yachts from scratch and that's great to get them sailing but personally I feel it would be better to stay within some very simple design and size parameters to create some uniformity within the yachts rather than be open slather.
Over the years the people on this forum have tried many many combinations of wheels, sails, construction techniques and designs and have ended up with what you see in the construction thread of the LLMini.

Clemco said...
As long as some practical size parameters were set, like maximum footprint and maximum maximum sail area, you would have a more interesting learning environment.

EXACTLY ..... thats what i've been trying to get accross.

Nikrum

TAS

1972 posts

Nikrum

TAS, 1972 posts

28 Sep 2010 11:01pm

It is about time kids were encouraged to get away from these Computers and get out there, use their heads for other things besides beating in nails.

We shouldn't restrict them to much other than the foot print thing and we should encourage research and development and not to reinvent the Wheel (As it were) But to build a better one. Encourage them to source and experiment with new and exotic materials (If they are at hand) to "Take up the Artists Pallet and use the full gamete or colors" To create something that could be a World Beater [SHRUG] or a total failure, in the end it is theirs to learn from.

So what are a few skinned knees and scratches?

"Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach him to fish and feed him for a life time".
Would that those words were mine as they have a beautiful sentiment.

Ron

tassiefubar

TAS

113 posts

tassiefubar

TAS, 113 posts

6 Oct 2010 10:57pm

hills said...

Hear hear Joe! I'm tempted to move my family down to Tas so my sons can go to CDHS!!

Just do it!
We could sure do with some more students down here!
The weather is always fantastic in Campania and......we have a pub!
Some mature age students would also be most welcome! So long as they are into land yachting!
Thought I'd explain how we came up with the basic design of our machines. They have evolved to suit our environment and have kept somewhat true to our intention of keeping things as safe as reasonably possible.
Our town oval is the spot where most of our activities take place. We have access to some farm land and there are some really good beaches within an hour's drive. Each has its own peculiarities and shortcomings.
We decided to construct a machine that was as light as possible but one which also had a reasonably secure cage to protect the kids. We included some side impact bars and built the mast step up to a height which would be a vertical impact bar which should stop the land yacht from passing through the the boundary fence.....and injuring the kids in the process. The surrounds of the oval include an array of buildings, hills and trees all of which conspire to produce very dirty air with gusts and back eddies... not the best for learning in. The concern was that the kids could easily lose control and crash, at speed.....before they had room to avoid the fence. Interestingly, no such incident has occurred although Joedan came the closest, screaming downwind in a massive gust and gybing to safety at the last moment. This gust was so strong that it bent the mast step....this being the only real damage we have had in the 3 years we have been sailing.
We use discarded stock car seats....in a very upright position.....this seems quite suitable for learners as it allows them to gain experience in a position that is more natural than the prone position of the LLM's. It will be interesting to see how they like the prone position if we do build a LLM.
You may notice that we have also added a roll bar....this may seem a bit of overkill but the concern was that we did not know if we could trust the masts from preventing a complete rollover. They have not been needed....we have flipped each dozens of times....with no real damage to the masts. It could be different on a hard road surface.
Our next build which the troops will unveil soon, is one which will be more suited to the farmland....a regular paddock basher and tussock jumper. It could be a lot of fun and we will appreciate useful comments and criticisms as we go.

... Guys?!?

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