Sounds like a good discussion. If one doesn't understand why something should be done or not, "Because is not an answer". If you don't make safe the Axle ends the vehicle is likely to badly lacerate an Ankle of Shin. Should a weld like that not be reinforced it is likely to break and at speed you are likely to badly injured or kill yourself" these proper answers. Like you said Giz' a good thread for discussion and thought out answers can only teach us all. The day any of us can not learn is the day we be Stepping from this Mortal Coil into a Wooden Jacket.
Ron

So there is scrutineering before the races. (I've never raced).
That would cover it nicely.

I can see what you mean Gizmo, as it's too late when you get to the impound to be inspected and there is something wrong with the craft that could have been corrected at home.

I really like the whole idea of creativity and common sense.
The mini class excels in this. It is well thought out, affordable and a fantastic stepping stone. (If I ever move on)
I would hate to see it get bogged down with lots of requirements.

I fitted a roll cage to a race car (a $1300 pre bent kit) and there was a 16 page document on the roll cage, that must be complied with, before the car can compete.
It really took the creativity out of it and became a very tough requirement.
These rules would price it out of the market to someone considering starting out. I realize that safety comes first. But the document was pedantic about non-structural areas.
For the young bloke who was a chippy's apprentice that I did it for, he was struggling. It was the hardest job, I have ever done for a carton of rum. (It took 3 days) and would price it out of the market for someone considering starting out.

I think this forum is a fantastic resource and there are so many people willing to help, it's unbelievable.

So if you are unsure or don't know, there is a good chance that someone has done it before and will aid you through your difficulty.

This has happened to me more times that I can remember.
(To all you guys that have helped sort me out, taken the piss or given me some general advice. I thank you one and all.)

So as asked, my answer would be for mini's, let's keep it this simple and let everyone enjoy this fantastic past time.

Cheers Chook

OK! So I will Start with queries?.

What Materials are suited to Land Yacht Build and what is sensibly suited to the purpose and integrity of Class 5 Yachts and down i.e. As Paul has pointed out why go for expensive metals when Recycled is cheap enough and serves the purpose.

I can safely say that though Carbon Fiber is a great material in certain areas of stress it would work if it were HEAVILY Reinforced. Schrodinger's Cat case in point.
Ron
PS; This is not for me personally but to help future members to understand what Home Build is about.

This video is not in English but has some good info on class5
Front Suspension
Mast post and adjustment
Note the size of axles and bearings.

Thanks AUS......great video, looks at many of things disscussed here often,
they also seem a great community, plenty of event support

I think standards do need to be different for each class. The speeds and forces put on the axles for example of a class 3 land yacht compared to a mini is totally different.

Yes I think mini's need standards but I don't want to be the one to draw the line. Yes I agree, poor welding should not be accepted but how do you determine a good weld? I have seen beautiful welds with close to no penetration at all, I have done welds that look like crap but would be more then sufficient for a mini.

Just my 2c

If welding standards were required how would you enforce them short of xraying all welds and who could afford that. And once xrayed how could you prove that a reweld had occurred. That would make home builts untenable due to price of certification.
Would you also have to sew a sail to a standard and how would that be enforced.
What standard would the painting have to be attained.
Do you use a gastrsocope to check for rust inside all the "new" pipe you buy, pipe that could have been sitting on the bottom of a stack for years as opposed to the 6 month old recycled piece

Gizmo said...

colk2004 said...

Hope this helps.

http://www.bfslyc.org.uk/files/fed/D.07%20C5%20CoP%20C&M%20Jun07.pdf

A great starting point....

Class5 is VERY specific on construction materials and specifications and if you build a yacht that doesn't comply with ALL the requirements its NOT Class5...simple. And its not "sort" of like a class5 that's like being "sort" of being pregnant you either are or you aren't.

Mini Class is a totally different situation.... any suitable materials go.

My concern of recycled materials for construction is "what is the condition of the materials" has the tube got rust inside, is it as strong as new tube etc? I often wonder about using trampolines as yacht frames, are they from a humid climate or a dry inland location?
New materials for a LLMini aren't that expensive as there is so little needed, the actual cost of the steel tube would be less than a slab of beer and if you not prepared to spend that should you be in the sport anyway?
Would you go to a tennis club with Nan's old tennis racket that's been re-strung with fishing line and a couple of tennis balls the dogs chewed? and still think its OK...

I think our sport (land sailing) deserves better than being regarded as "Junkyard Sailing"

wow Gizmo, heres a chance for a clean up.dump all your landyachts, get out your cheque book and go buy a Blokart, or import a European class 5.meanwhile we can get on with what we love to do without somebody telling us what we aught to be doing.
if the tube or weld isnt up to the job , you will soon find out.thats how these yachts(even your beloved class5's) evolved to what they are today.
getting in a homebuilt yacht AND sailing it is a choice

Maybe we should just get someone to design a landyacht video game and we can just sit in our armchairs and play it Way too risky otherwise

Ditto

So from the original question on this thread..........

A. What is the "Standard"?
There appears to be no construction "Standard" for DIY or Manufactured Land yachts
B. Who set the standard and is it an international "standard"?
There appears to be no construction "Standard" for DIY or Manufactured Land yachts
C. How do you measure a yacht to that "standard"?
There appears to be no construction "Standard" for DIY or Manufactured Land yachts
D. Are commercially built yachts built to a "standard" [Go to question A]
They may be built to their own internal factory QA construction standard which maybe doubtful (ie. Zooter yachts)
E. Who would enforce it and are they qualified to do so?
With no such construction "Standard" it seems it would be best suited to the individual clubs / groups to monitor build quality and yacht safety.
F. How would you measure yachts of different construction types, ie Carbon/ Glass fibre, Timber, Aluminium, steel etc.
Difficult and probably not needed.
I have done a search for a "standard" for construction on the web in both land and ice sailing but all I seem to find is class specifications but NOT construction standards.

While it would nice to have a "standard" like the auto industry is it practical, is it possible, is it needed?
A construction "Standard" at this stage does NOT seem practical, possible or needed. Apart from general safety common sense which we ALL can keep an eye on.

I would have thought that building yachts to class specifications would have been sufficient and should the existing classes [Class5 / Promo & Mini] be encouraged for constructors rather than some of the non class yachts that have been made over the years?

"Gez Ron "!!!....... you actually made good sence there buddy

You have probably set a new standard......for your slanging self [}:)]

must be because, no rum....nik

lachlan3556 said...

Common sense as a standard sounds good to me as well!

Only problem there- is that common sense isnt very common anymore!

So many people out there have relied for so long on someone elses rules being imposed on them in almost every facet of life, that the vast majority cant comprehend taking responsibility for the consequences of thier own actions.

Our hobby/ sport/ past time of landyachting with home built
machines is one of the few times that I have been able to enjoy myself without ending up being buried in red tape and over zealous officialdom.
Half the fun for me is just finding the bits and pieces to build- or helping others to build (like the kids at Mercy college)

note: I prefer the term "home built" to "home made"- home made always tends to sound a bit "Heath Robinson" to me)

I just love the mini rules as they stand at the moment.

round tube mast,
5.6m loop of rope for the wheel footprint,
4" x 8" tyre.

lets hope they stay this way!

There is of course THE one Standard only that I sail to , Standart
www.char-a-voile.com/www-uk/standart.html

So lets just keep having fun folks, Standart or no Standards !

landyacht said...

Gizmo said...

So from the original question on this thread..........

A. What is the "Standard"?
There appears to be no construction "Standard" for DIY or Manufactured Land yachts
B. Who set the standard and is it an international "standard"?
There appears to be no construction "Standard" for DIY or Manufactured Land yachts
C. How do you measure a yacht to that "standard"?
There appears to be no construction "Standard" for DIY or Manufactured Land yachts
D. Are commercially built yachts built to a "standard" [Go to question A]
They may be built to their own internal factory QA construction standard which maybe doubtful (ie. Zooter yachts)
E. Who would enforce it and are they qualified to do so?
With no such construction "Standard" it seems it would be best suited to the individual clubs / groups to monitor build quality and yacht safety.
F. How would you measure yachts of different construction types, ie Carbon/ Glass fibre, Timber, Aluminium, steel etc.
Difficult and probably not needed.
I have done a search for a "standard" for construction on the web in both land and ice sailing but all I seem to find is class specifications but NOT construction standards.

While it would nice to have a "standard" like the auto industry is it practical, is it possible, is it needed?
A construction "Standard" at this stage does NOT seem practical, possible or needed. Apart from general safety common sense which we ALL can keep an eye on.

I would have thought that building yachts to class specifications would have been sufficient and should the existing classes [Class5 / Promo & Mini] be encouraged for constructors rather than some of the non class yachts that have been made over the years?

shhhhhhhh,your shouting, calm down

Shouting in printed media refers to CAPITALISATION not bolding or underlining