I think I saw lessons being taught with a St Kilda Sea Baths last week sometime...
May be mistaken though...

Might be a little off topic but as kiters where (legislation documention) are kiters classed as a boat etc...vs someone using a skim board?

I do kite in the kiting areas, just curious as to who deemed this places a no kiteboarding zone? Or is it just a thing we are all meant to know?

Don't take into account the jumping near people, i don't encourage this at all!!!

Honestly after 2 years of kiting in St. Kilda I am still totally confused about 'rules' or guidelines.

- If we are sailing boats, we could in theory use the water in front of the beach (Sea Baths) as long as we stay outside the yellow buoys. (while launching south (close to the marina) might be possible I am not sure about landing closer towards the pier..
- keeping out of the RMYS's 'kiddies' pool.. I still don't know where that would end north of the pier: the few times they are training there, it would be easy to respect that and just stay out of the area marked by their training buoys..
- swimming between 100 people kiting is a totally stupid idea to begin with, no need for insults...
- are motorboats allowed to anchor along the kite 'instruction/beginner's sandbar' (blocking it)?
- there also is a sign (if you cross the stormdrain over the little bridge) that you are entering an environmentally sensitive area (the grassland I assume) and dogs are generally not allowed.. - aside from being rather pathetic next to the foul smelling drain, how big is that area supposed to be (is that designation current) ?


maybe it is time to consider proper rules or at least guidelines for the whole area..

the first time I saw Maui's North shore rules (see links) I didn't know whether to laugh or to cry, but maybe it all makes sense.

Maybe the KBV could spent a little time on putting together an easily understandable map, proper beach designations (where exactly is west beach, kiddies pool and is there a proper name for the sea baths swimming beach (eg Boganville)?
- and maybe start negotiating clear rules with the council and the RMYS for no-kiting (or restricted kiting if the RMYS eg flys a certain flag or puts up a sign that cadet training is in process) and no swimming, no anchoring (and maybe dogs on leash?!) in the kiting areas. I am not sure the city of Port Melbourne would benefit from a general ban, after all kiteboarding is bringing business and is a great attraction to the otherwise rather unspectacular area.

And a general notice/information board about the area would greatly help, too as it's not all locals kiting there.

just a few ideas - I think most of the conflicts would be easily preventable...

http://www.mauikiteboardingassociation.com/kitemaps.html
www.mauikiteboardingassociation.com/kite_safe_guidelines.pdf

flight9774 said...

Honestly after 2 years of kiting in St. Kilda I am still totally confused about 'rules' or guidelines.

You raise some very good points so lets look at each separately:

flight9774 said...
- If we are sailing boats, we could in theory use the water in front of the beach (Sea Baths) as long as we stay outside the yellow buoys. (while launching south (close to the marina) might be possible I am not sure about landing closer towards the pier..

You can sail in front of the sea baths as long as you remain in the boating zone which means remaining a couple of hundred meters off-shore. You may not launch/land on that beach as it means passing through a no-go zone to do so.

flight9774 said...
- keeping out of the RMYS's 'kiddies' pool.. I still don't know where that would end north of the pier: the few times they are training there, it would be easy to respect that and just stay out of the area marked by their training buoys..
- swimming between 100 people kiting is a totally stupid idea to begin with, no need for insults...

This is a boating zone (to allow yachts to get to their moorings) but is actually a no-kiting zone - having said that kiters have been tolerated there but if we continue to annoy the RMYS Cadett sailors and hang kites on yacht masts then we might get banned completely.

The rule here is to remain clear of boats underway or moored, and any other obstacles including the pier, the slipway and swimmers - 50 meters!!!!!

flight9774 said...
- are motorboats allowed to anchor along the kite 'instruction/beginner's sandbar' (blocking it)?

Good question - probably, but might be worth comment from Parks Vic.

flight9774 said...
- there also is a sign (if you cross the stormdrain over the little bridge) that you are entering an environmentally sensitive area (the grassland I assume) and dogs are generally not allowed.. - aside from being rather pathetic next to the foul smelling drain, how big is that area supposed to be (is that designation current) ?

I believe it applies to the beach and not the water area. Best to check Parks Vic or COPP web sites.

flight9774 said...
Maybe the KBV could spent a little time on putting together an easily understandable map, proper beach designations (where exactly is west beach, kiddies pool and is there a proper name for the sea baths swimming beach (eg Boganville)?

KBV is awaiting the completion of the Parks Vic Boaing Zone Review - this will then give us a definitive directory of all boating and kiting zones in Victoria.

Negotiations with the councils and Parks Vic as well as Maritime Safety is ongoing. Slowly we are managing to get councils to put up signs (like that at Brighton's Kitebeach) showing kiters and other beach users what areas are desgnated for various activities including rigging, launching/landing etc.

harry potter said...

In the meantime surely common sense must prevail.......

The best way to do this is to consider your kiting illegal.... just something you get away with, think of yourself as the lowest form of water and beach user.

By this I mean give way to every other craft and beach user, stay well away from swimmers, apologise profusly and sincerely if you cause an incident, stay out of no boating zones ......

Think so too...

flight9774 said...

just had a look at the St Kilda Harbour Concept Plan for the new RMYS facilities and an events beach north of the pier.. if realized like planned (although the document says the current status of the proposal is unclear) that would porbabaly be the end of kiteboarding in the harbour zone ('kiddies pool') anyway...

For those (locals) who are interested there's going to be an info tent on the proposed Catani Gardens and southern foreshore management plan on Sat 31 (i think it was) but you can also get a copy of the draft management plan from the port philip council.. that includes a draft on the RMYS facilities.

Will be VERY interesting - especially as we were invited to make a submission on behalf of kiters - if interested have a look at our submission at:
http://www.kbv.org.au/KBV_Minutes_&_Reports/2008/080918_stkilda_harb_kbv_draft_submission.pdf

harry potter said...

In the meantime surely common sense must prevail.......

The best way to do this is to consider your kiting illegal.... just something you get away with, think of yourself as the lowest form of water and beach user.

By this I mean give way to every other craft and beach user, stay well away from swimmers, apologise profusly and sincerely if you cause an incident, stay out of no boating zones ......

I see too many riders posturing up to the public " I am entitled to this , I can go there, I have right of way etc etc..." it is the wrong attitude and not what the kiting community was founded upon.

I agree as well. We are the most likely to cause harm to other beach users. At Brighton I see so many kiters attempts tricks within a lines length of the beach, just to make sure their tricks are seen by an unimpressed beachgoer who is more concerned with the safety of their kid than what trick the kiter is pulling.

The mindset should be respectful of all beach users and sharing the stoke amongst kiters, very few non-kiters care what you can do.

Thanks to KBV for clearing some things up. Is there anyway violations can be enforced? For example the kiters in front of the baths were definitely within the 200m (it would be hard to read the logo if they were not).

Maybe explicit signage such as 'No kiteboarding withink 200m of shore' would be of more benefit to our sport than it would initially appear. At least then responsibility of the law-breakers would be placed on the individuals themselves, not the kiting community as a whole.

vipar said...

Thanks to KBV for clearing some things up. Is there anyway violations can be enforced? For example the kiters in front of the baths were definitely within the 200m (it would be hard to read the logo if they were not).

KBV has no authority to enforce - this is done by Parks Vic and the Water Police (presumably under direction of Parks Vic). All we can do is try to incrrease awareness of the issues and the consequences which is why we publish incident reports and try to find out about all incidents.

vipar said...

Maybe explicit signage such as 'No kiteboarding withink 200m of shore' would be of more benefit to our sport than it would initially appear. At least then responsibility of the law-breakers would be placed on the individuals themselves, not the kiting community as a whole.

Individuals will unfortunately always be the culprits and will cause hardship for us all - there is no practical way at the moment to identify individual kiters - there were discussions about having kites numbered like sails are but unless this is done by the kite manufacturers it will be too costly to do and enforce.

So, we have to rely on the goodwill of the community - kiters that see others "misbehaving" suggeting alternatives, other areas or simply pointing out the dangers - mostly this works but there are some out there with "bad attitude" who know it all and get upset (to the extent of bashing people) when told that they are not conducting themselves in an acceptable manner.

We are also in regular contact with the councils as well as Parks Vic and Maritime safety - sometimes in an advisory capacity and sometimes assisting in any ways they ask to regulate etc. Our key charter is to preserve access. Hard to represent Kiters in general as a good bunch when a few are definitely trying to spoil it for us all.

But we try.....

Lil birdie tells me it was a photo-shoot stunt - no council etc permission - clever move boys!!!

vipar said...

When I got closer I could see their kites had "St Kilda Sea Baths" emblazoned on them.

It's well known who owns these kites.

KBV know's that as well, but does not do anything unlike with other kiters who receive
a public torching without researching the facts.

Another proof that there are conficts of interest within KBV and that KBV does not represent the interest of the kiters anymore, but the interest of a few schools.

if I am not mistaken there was talk of a 'FERRY' terminal (?!) as well...
don't those usually come with (restricted) waterways ?

I had just a quick glance at the KBV's submission on that and well, it's pointing out some of the flaws of the plan in rather in-diplomatic terms ..

harry potter said...

A perfect example ( not the photo but project in general ) as to why St Kilda kiters need to respect the issues which the RMYS have raised re : kiting near the pier and slipway and now between boats.

We cannot expect them to involve kiters or KBV in their planned submissions if they constantly see their current requests being ignored.

Just think how much more flat water there will be with the extension of the breakwall.

100% correct.

You got kiters repeatedly ignore the requests to stay away from the slipway and not to kite around the pier, you have people wrapping their kites around yachts and the youngsters in their yachts. If I was the RMYS, I sure as hell wouldn't involve the kiters if I considered them to be a nuisance and the propose plans might make them go away.

Hopefully the original perpetrators are no longer doing this - apparently a written warning was issued to them by COPP and Parks Vic.

It could of-course be other kiters who saw the original bunch and assumed its ok to kite there...

Unfortunately this is hard to follow-up on - anyone seeing this should point out to the kiters they are in the wrong, or failing that, should let us know who they are - this means being able to identify who they are (photo or personal knowledge) and what kite (make & color) each is flying (again a photo is a useful thing).

This is my comment on another forum. The problems it seems is that the areas in the Bays and nearby coast which allow wind and swell (waves) but where chop is restricted are few and far between. St Kilda Pier offers one of those rare spots. I'm not sure Parks Vic, RMYS or others fully appreciate this. The view seems to be that there is plenty of water in the Bay so go there. The argument that the sailing cadets are being harassed by kiters doesn't hold much water as this area is generally utilised when the wind is in the 20-30kn range which is way beyond what the cadets are able to sail in. Crashing into moored yachts of course doesn't help our argument.