hi there..
as you see in the sketch, in stead of connect the standart safety line to one of the front lines, ( that makes the kite flag, but once in the water is impossible to refly it, plus more than two hours trying to take all the knots and tangles away from the bar...)
the point is to connect the safety line to the ring that holds both front lines... with almost 4 meters length, that is the distance that will run away when the quick release is launched....

theoricaly, the kite will flag and perform as the best kahoona do or the cabrinha IDS system...holding the kite, with no power, lying on his back, from both from lines...



when you let go the bar with the stopper ball on top, the kite falls in one side of the window, but stills pulling... that´s one meter away from the bar..


but I´m talking about the new point of attachment, the front lines joint ring, is 3, 75 meters away from the bar.... that will kill the power totally.. no?
look to the best red line bar .... the point is two meters away from the bar..


also the airush bar..


my kite has new rostan pulleys in the front lines, that will help too



please, let me know ....I´m all ears !
thanks, mates !!!!

Also its a good idea to run a plastic sheath over the flag out line for the first meter or so to stop it from wearing with the bar travel,otherwise after a few months it can become freyed and i wouldnt count on it not breaking,you can achieve the same result by just hooking to your depower line on the Naish setup,if you punch out the depower pops out of the cleat and flags out the kite just the same.

Just be careful - the Charger has a mini bridle setup which won't allow the kite to flip forwards on the bridle.

Check out the way the Cabrinha system works. They need to use 8 pulleys (yes, EIGHT) on the Switchblades in order for the kite to fully depower on the virtual 5th line (just over 3 meters up).. There's a lot of technical work that had to go into that bridle, and it's a shame because it's forced Cab to go down the pulley route - where as the other brands who use less pulleys are getting similar results, with a single front line safety that is actually quicker and safer to release.

It will work, but don't expect to see your kite sitting on its back in the water like a real 5th line would, or an IDS system would...

Im pretty sure f-one uses this system as well

sergi said...

Thanx randman 4...
So that means you are riding actually your new naish kites, with this configuration, connected to both front lines...
Did you ever push the Q.R..??? And kills the power?
100% flagging?
With a customized naish bar o another?
Thanx, mate

Basically hooking the system up to flag out both front lines works just like throwing the bar away and letting the kite drift out of the sky,90+ % of the time the kite will land on its tip sitting at the edge of the window or on its face ,with no tangles,then its simple to haul in the bar and reset and away you go,its works fine with the charger mini bridal,i've had students flag the kite out this way many times.
Yes i use the exact same system with my Parks,I run them on the Griffin bar cos i like the taper of the bar and also the Griffin bar had a 5m leader set that i think all kite manufacturers should adopt as it stops you wearing your lines out ,i tend to loop my kite for just about every direction change and was wearing through linesets every 3-4 months my latest bar is prob a year old now and the lines are still crispy.
Was out in 3m surf the other week and got absolutely barreled by a munting wave ,must of spun me over 3 times ,while i spun i got slack line and my chicken loop popped off ,the whole system worked like a dream,hauled in the loop hooked back in let the override line reel through and relaunched just before the next set came through,works a treat,in the same situ with a single line flagout i would of been stuffed prob dragged in with the birdsnest from hell.

If you want a 5th line safety system why don't you buy a kite with it already installed? That's going to be better than butchering an existing kite and ending up with a system that doesn't work properly.

It's very expensive doing the DIY bridle/safety thing. By the time you buy pieces of spectra and polyester thread and sew it up and mess it up several times you are half way to the cost of changing over to a new kite. A metre here, two metres there, 5-10m of kite line at $5 a metre.

I have spent hundreds of dollars at sail shops buying stuff and fiddling around in the past. It used to be fun and it was necessary because proper bars and quick releases had not been invented. Now it's just a box full of tangled bits of rope and webbing and a modified sewing machine sitting in a cupboard.

PS Unless you're riding unhooked and overpowered you might like to work on why you are throwing to the safety leash so much. It should really be a last resort thing, not something you do all the time.

radman4 said...

sergi said...

Thanx randman 4...
So that means you are riding actually your new naish kites, with this configuration, connected to both front lines...
Did you ever push the Q.R..??? And kills the power?
100% flagging?
With a customized naish bar o another?
Thanx, mate

Basically hooking the system up to flag out both front lines works just like throwing the bar away and letting the kite drift out of the sky,90+ % of the time the kite will land on its tip sitting at the edge of the window or on its face ,with no tangles,then its simple to haul in the bar and reset and away you go,its works fine with the charger mini bridal,i've had students flag the kite out this way many times.
Yes i use the exact same system with my Parks,I run them on the Griffin bar cos i like the taper of the bar and also the Griffin bar had a 5m leader set that i think all kite manufacturers should adopt as it stops you wearing your lines out ,i tend to loop my kite for just about every direction change and was wearing through linesets every 3-4 months my latest bar is prob a year old now and the lines are still crispy.
Was out in 3m surf the other week and got absolutely barreled by a munting wave ,must of spun me over 3 times ,while i spun i got slack line and my chicken loop popped off ,the whole system worked like a dream,hauled in the loop hooked back in let the override line reel through and relaunched just before the next set came through,works a treat,in the same situ with a single line flagout i would of been stuffed prob dragged in with the birdsnest from hell.

note that safety release system is nothing like a 5th line that you described, that sounds just like the 2:1 system best and slingy used where it only depowers 70 - 80% and will NOT work as a safety flag out if a line were ever to get tangled or snap etc.
a PROPER mini 5th completely kills the power and makes the kite crash either face down or belly up same as a one line flag system.

Rhys Porter said...

Just be careful - the Charger has a mini bridle setup which won't allow the kite to flip forwards on the bridle.

Check out the way the Cabrinha system works. They need to use 8 pulleys (yes, EIGHT) on the Switchblades in order for the kite to fully depower on the virtual 5th line (just over 3 meters up).. There's a lot of technical work that had to go into that bridle, and it's a shame because it's forced Cab to go down the pulley route - where as the other brands who use less pulleys are getting similar results, with a single front line safety that is actually quicker and safer to release.

It will work, but don't expect to see your kite sitting on its back in the water like a real 5th line would, or an IDS system would...

Switchies and Crossbows use 4 pulleys, 2 per side and 2 stainless forged guides, 1 per side.
So called mini fifth does not work on all kites, be very careful, it may seem like it works in lighter winds, but may turn into a monster in strong winds, make sure you test in strong winds, and have big area downwind in case you need to let the kite go.

My 2011 Ozone bar has a stopper ball that stops the bar from sliding all the way up when you flag to the single front line. This is unlike my 2010 Naish bar where the bar can slide all the way up to the bridle when flagged. But then the Ozone bar doesn't have the mono front line either. The front lines split straight after the trim strap.

I haven't flagged a kite on the Ozone bar but this setup might save some bird nests ?

Can a kite be relaunched after flagging on the Ozone bar ? Are there any down sides to having the Ozone system and the stopper ball ?
Is there an advantage to the Naish mono front line ?

Hi guys,

A simple question... Why is everyone so fixated on relaunching a kite after you have pinged the Quick release?

I have had to activate my QR on the chicken loop about half a dozen times in 11 years. I have never been concerned with relaunch after I have done so.

In emergency situations which lead to the need to activate the full flagging quick release, you are usually in a serious or even life threatening situation which on my part, has always ended in the obvious decision to self rescue back to the beach, not to get the kite back up in the air. That was usually the opposite of what I wanted.

The Ozone system can be relaunched after quick released, however, the chance of tangled lines is possible. It's purpose is to safely kill off the power under ANY condition. It's ability to be relaunched is not really considered at design stage although the ball on the front line does stop any additional unnecessary tangling.

The safest system is 5th line followed very closely, if not equal to a front line flagging 4 line.

Virtual 5ths work well provided the kite doesn't roll through it's bridle which can leave the rear lines bridle tangled around the wingtips, this prevents the virtual 5th from working. This doesn't happen all the time, but I have witnessed it happen several times in a season, so it's very possible.

There is no perfect system, just some safer than others, and lets face it, safety and dependability should be the primary if not only consideration when considering safety flagging systems.

Some manufacturers do not build in full flagging virtual 5th's, they just depower and dump most of the power. I don't think these are safe enough personally.

Again, if the kite has bridles and is not made to flag to a virtual 5th, don't rig one from a single front line flag system. Manufacturers don't just chuck kites out there with safety systems that "should be right", they build in the safest system to function as best as it can, by modifying a system to virtual 5th, you are ignoring the limitations of the bridle system. Do so at your own peril. Never modify someone elses system for them.

DM

AKSonline said...

Hi guys,

A simple question... Why is everyone so fixated on relaunching a kite after you have pinged the Quick release?

I have had to activate my QR on the chicken loop about half a dozen times in 11 years. I have never been concerned with relaunch after I have done so.

In emergency situations which lead to the need to activate the full flagging quick release, you are usually in a serious or even life threatening situation which on my part, has always ended in the obvious decision to self rescue back to the beach, not to get the kite back up in the air. That was usually the opposite of what I wanted.

Yes, true but a tangle free flag out system like a true 5th line can be useful in other situations like self landing in strong wind and people unhooking might have less need to ride suicide. It would still be nice to have a tangle free virtual 5th line.

Thanks for the advice, rhinoman but already had north and I did not like them..
And also, what d.u.m.b.o means?

Yep thats exactly what we discussed,would have been more obvious if they had of just included an extra attachment point like griffin do,dont know why they dont have it set that way as standard and have the single line flagout as the option,way safer.
Although this way of hookup takes the override line totally away so make sure you keep an eye on the trim line for any serious wear as if it snaps you and the kite will be in two different places.
This setup is the same as the previous griff bar before they added the override line.