Agree with Aus wind that ther is confusion
SLE kites are getting really refined now and the new generation of SLE hybrids [eg RRD Type 9] are anything but flat, and definitely feel more c kite in turning and response but with added DePower and stability.

On the points of felix and the whole C Kite unhooked thing:

Felix pretty uniquely was slow to give up his beloved 2 line kites [and wake board with bindings I might add] which really did require a lot more skill in kite-flying. He took the 4 line kites and dispensed with the chicken loop just set them up on a fixed bar and trimmed with the front line trim, so basically changing as little as possible about how the kite flew. He also spend his first couple of years of riding waves on his wakeboard and was going faster and throwing more spray than anyone which he has translated into his current smooth elegabnt but powered and fast style.

Most guys out there have never flown a 2 line kite and will absolutely hate his set up, and if they try, it will in no way improve there performance in the waves or anywhere else. Felix it must be pointed out uses the flattest fastest most unstable C Kite on the market [the Airush reactor] because he can trim in a lot of depower into it and then fly the bejesus out of it, using its efficent high angle of attack to generate power on the stroke. If he wasnt on a fixed line his elbows would be knackered in no time from all the flying up and down his kite requires, which is another big adavntage for him with a fixed loop. Felix can never park his kite because he is using a kite 50% smaller than anyone else and if he does he will stop. His big kite is his 9m( and he uses a 5.5 when its 20kts+]. also he uses 25m lines nothing shorter. The Reactors have a nasty habit of collapsing on short lines and much of the power they generate from apparent windspeed is lost.

His setup also lends itself to unhooked riding because he already has his kite perfectly trimmed for the conditions before he hooks out and by keeping his kite small he is avoiding that 'hand in the air, ass in th water' look of most unhooked riders who are using a kite 50% bigger than felix and finding that the kite that a chicken loop allows them to control is way too much when hooked out.

Now all this works well for Felix who is in my view [one shared by many] still the world's best wave rider, but i think for people to say it is his kite set-up that makes him looks so good is a furphy. 99% of riders would look way worse on what he rides. Remember he has learnt this way and has put more time on the water than anyone

Also ask felix what he thinks of riding on typical winter WA 20-35kt knot gusty onshore days like yesterday when a lot of local guys were having heaps of funs at Cott with their high depower hydrid SLEs and bows. I think if he was around he'd have gone to the pub like we all did in the 2 line days when it got really windy, as a chicken loop and a high depower kite in these conditions becomes a safety necessity not a luxury.

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Originally posted by niall barrett

Also ask felix what he thinks of riding on typical winter WA 20-35kt knot gusty onshore days like yesterday when a lot of local guys were having heaps of funs at Cott with their high depower hydrid SLEs and bows. I think if he was around he'd have gone to the pub

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A winter WA 20-35kt gusty onshore day isn't heaps of fun.
It's jerky survival stuff even on my bow.
But it's another kiting day and that's all that really matters.
Some sessions are better than others.
I reckon Felix the pro would have gone kiting in those nasty conditions nevertheless.
He would have ripped it to pieces and then gone to the pub.

Niall, I really enjoyed your essay.
But to make your long story short,
what was your point ?
Maybe there was no point intended ?
It matters not.

But what came across to me loud and clear was the scepticism for the Felix sideshow.
Maybe it's fully justified.
Maybe rippin' unhooked retro-primitive wavekiting just won't catch on with the crew.
It's a shame cause it's pretty cool.
But the bow show commands the stage at the moment.

Ideally,
I'd dig to wavekite unhooked, unleashed, unencumbered....
but with the added luxury of high-depower on demand.
Maybe that's totally impossible.
Maybe it just hasn't been invented yet.

Maybe just go surfing instead.

slavey, I really enjoyed your essay. Did you actually get out on Sunday?

so if you are a Raven or Rhino rider liking the grunt boost and hang which Sigma would you buy???

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I don't see any surf?????

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the most accurate reply

quote:

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Originally posted by Auswind



What is a bow and what isnt ?

I've posted this MANY times before -There is ALOT of confusion in the market over what is a bow and what isnt -

Maximum -you are absolutely correct when you say that the flow unhooks no problem. You implied the Airush Flow is a bow design - it isnt - its a SLE (supported leading edge) hybrid -hence its c like turning and easy unhookability .

To take other examples:- the SwitchBlade is a hybrid ,the CrossBow - the first bow design to the market , patented by Bruno Legainoux ,- is a bow - its important to make the distinction.

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Confusion in the market, I wonder why?

First off, a Switchblade is very much a bow. Bow refers to the outline and the bridling, thus it can be as flat or C shaped as it wants, have 2:1 or 1:1 pullies and still be called a bow! I just have to look on the kite to see the patent label proving it.

Now this Airush Flow, judging by the outline I'd say bow, unless the image isn't correct.

A SLE would be like the Omega with the straight trailing edge.

That's what I'd say based on the descriptions I've read.

Naish kites have an "I/I" shaped profile, which created 2 pockets of uplift... They also use flat panels instead of rounded/curved ones, and have that kink on the leading edge. Pretty radical"bow"???

Saw the new Rebel 08' funny bungee system??? This elastic cord runs from the back pigtail, through a nylon plastic circle thingy that is attached to the kite about 4cm away from the back pigtails then runs to the inside part of the leading edge stopping a couple of cm from the front line attachment on the kite. Interested to see how this will help in relaunch?? and cant wait to see someone connect their front lines to the bungee attachment points and try to fly the kite.

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Originally posted by waveslave
It's got the gay bridles.

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I think you will find that they are "metrosexual"!

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Originally posted by Auswind



The original post was not meant to dictate whether crew should ride C kites, Hyrids or Bows, strapped, unstrapped, hooked in, unhooked , Surfboards or TT - i have seen high levels of ripping on all of the above! It really was about the kite flying and timing in the shot. And the fact that its a pretty shot.

This reply almost warrants a topic of its own - but since it applies to this thread i'll post it here - sorry about the length of the post but its an important topic.

C kites vs Bows vs Hybrids

Regarding Cs vs Bows vs Hybrids -We actually have ALOT more demand for Hybrids than Cs -and we believe they are , statistically, usually the most functional option for most rider's styles. -although felix's influence has us measuring how much the swing may go back towards Cs again. Ruben Is also keeping the flag flying for C kite performance inspiration.

We are getting preorders on Generators and Converse Surfboards as a result of Felix's coverage, performance and style. Felix is, as far as i know, the first Kiter to be observed by the mainstream surf companies as a real gate opener for the paddle Surfer cross over - hence his Billabong sponsorship - he gets looked after by the same team that Look after Joel Parkinson. Its Interesting that he has caught their eye.. The whole surf / kitesurf cross over pros and cons topic could rage for months - but thats another thread..


Styles and demand in the Kitesurfing industry moves quickly - you have to be fast on your feet to match demand. There is certainly no intention to dictate what people should ride -although there are some pretty clear trends:
for learner / intermediates - safety and functionality will be an overriding concern and have a huge influence on reccomendations. As well as our own experience we take alot of cues from Darren marshall and his highly regarded school here in WA.They get through alot of students and customer feedback is nothing short of outstanding . Schools really do reveal what is right for beginners and what makes life harder and what is patently dangerous.


This is where our particular Hybrid SLE designs like DNA and Flow come up trumps. Riders are getting up to intermediate standard in about half the time as they were on C kite designs! Once intermediate levels are reached riders can usually make informed decisions for themselves.

What is a bow and what isnt ?

I've posted this MANY times before -There is ALOT of confusion in the market over what is a bow and what isnt - with many crew classing anything that isnt a C kite as a bow. Not their fault - the industry has done a terrible job of informing the consumer. We get lots of beginners being told that a BOW design is what they should get -usually as a result of their high depower being percieved as safer- we find that Hybrids - in our case the Flow and DNA s - are FAR more suitable (and you can unhook them relatively easily). You get MOST of the windrange of a bow with ALOT of the pivotal steering of a C design.

Maximum -you are absolutely correct when you say that the flow unhooks no problem. You implied the Airush Flow is a bow design - it isnt - its a SLE (supported leading edge) hybrid -hence its c like turning and easy unhookability . The Flow has massivefunctionality that beginners and Pro level riders can all enjoy.

To take other examples:- the SwitchBlade is a hybrid ,the CrossBow - the first bow design to the market , patented by Bruno Legainoux ,- is a bow - its important to make the distinction. North dont make a bow - they rely on supported leading edge from the 5th line - these kites arent designed to fly with only 4 lines as they rely on the 5th to support the leading edge - a hybrid SLE design. Naish's only bow last year was the Shockwave, Slingshot's Link is a hybrid - The T2 is a bow.

Many riders class all flat looking kites as bow designs - they arent - its only the super flat designs that qualify- like the Cross bow, GK Sonic, AR HAlo. You can USUALLY (not always though - some manufacturers release BOW designs without the 2:1 Bow bar required for full sheeting range- GK in the past for example ) pick it by the presence of pulleys on the bar with back lines , and the "extreme flatness" of the kite giving maximum 3d sheeting geometry.

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lol.
Clear as mud, Aussie.

Describing different styles of kites will become easier in the near future....
That's once C-kites disappear off the face of the seascape.
(And maybe when the patent licence thing goes away).
We won't be confused by terms like sle's or hybrids or flatkites or ultra-flatkites or licenced bows,
with the official patch stitched-on.

Once C-kites become extinct,
all kites will be just bridled high-depower kites (for a time).
All kites will be just variations of each other (for a time).
With the exception of doonas of course.
lol.

Then we can go back to describing kites like the old days.
We'll have Cabrinha style, Naish style and North style and so on.
Their colour schemes, graphics, profiles and outlines will uniquely identify them.
It will be how it was when we only had C-kites (and doonas).
Before high-depower double-speak crept into kite language.

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Originally posted by dave......

Vey sorry slavey... a typo, I was trying to do a big fat M (I/I).
So I suppose it's a bow kite with 2 "kinks"......
get out and go for a kite mate, yor spending way too much time in front of the computer.

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Would // work ??

Or: I/I ???

Maybe: I/I??

This guy doesn't look like he is having fun to me that looks like hard work. I would rather watch Chasta
ozonekites.com/water
He is very smooth and looks like he is having fun ......he rides hooked and unhooked and I wanna go there...

Always trawling for a bite aren't you wave. I'll take a chunk of your bait mate because you didn't tie your knot to the hook properly.

C's will not die out because there will always be people who like them. despite everyone trying to convince the world that they are not the done thing anymore.

Each kite has a benefit and a drawback.
(quick, I'm on! set your re-set your drag!)

Each rider has strengths and weaknesses and likes to do different stuff on the water and in different conditions. Some want it easier and more forgiving, some want it extreme and more full-on.
(swimming deep now, get in the chair!)

The kiting world will always be open to all designs of kites for this reason, it will just depend on which companies know their customers and take the punt on the financials of carrying many different designs to cater for what they think their market wants. At the moment, "C's are definately dropping in number.

(well fought, yuo have me back to the surface)

At the end of the day some companies will try to pigeon hole the world of riders by marketing in certain ways to "talk down" one design over another, we all know the way it works. It will depend on wether you are a Ford man or a Holden (Mitsubishi Sigma?)

Some company will always be there with a "C" if there's a market that likes that product.
(spat the hook)

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Originally posted by Gstar
See www.seabreeze.com.au/gallery/gallery.asp?imageid=3591&text=Gstar

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Is that footstraps i see? isn't that technically kite-BOARDING. I was under the impression(in my little world, population two, me and me) that kite-SURFING should be done strapless on a surfboard? a debate for another day probably.

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Originally posted by Gstar

Tow SURFING...
You can be the the one to tell Laird it's not SURFING..
Tow Boarding ..yeah right.

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I could take Laird, he's not so tough. I'll just send kiteboy in first and the frothing would take him down(or scare him ****less! )

hahahah, i'll stick some straps on my skateboard next time i use it at the skatepark and see what the guys think. LOL!