Sometimes ...

(not always) ...

Teamriders are required to fib abit about certain aspects of product on this forum.



Do teamriders really have any cred ??

why is that 9/10 wainman riders are complete d!ckheads

surfingboye said...
So who does eppo team ride for...?
He gets a kites and says how good they are and then changes over to different gear...
Maybe his shop stocks lots of different brands?
Lol...

Eppo rides for his own team. Gauging from his posts he gives an honest opinion about the gear that makes him happy.
Having never met the man, i give him more 'cred' then 'team riders'.
Eppo does not bag his previous loves, but displays his 'stoke' for all his gear.
I would buy from his shop.

When the main expectation of a 'team' rider is be an ambassador for the brand you can't expect that any of them, are going to bite the hand that gave them the gear and say anything bad, simple fact of life...

surfingboye said...
So who does eppo team ride for...?
He gets a kites and says how good they are and then changes over to different gear...
Maybe his shop stocks lots of different brands?
Lol...

Actually I'd argue the exact opposite. The chances of one kite being the best year after year is pretty low so anyone constantly switching brands may be on to the right idea. Better than the "I buy this kite because I've been riding the same thing for the last 5 years" clan who never actually venture outside their comfort zone.

Smithy said...
When the main expectation of a 'team' rider is be an ambassador for the brand you can't expect that any of them, are going to bite the hand that gave them the gear and say anything bad, simple fact of life...

True, but if a kite backstalls, just say it. You gain more credibility with an honest review than a pimp which most prospective buyers can see through. I tend to think it's not about what you do and don't like about a kite, it's why you do and don't like them that gives the added spin. I.e. there is nothing wrong with saying a kite doesn't unhook very well if it's prospective market is unlikely to unhook.

Usually the people who can afford to buy their own gear will be more honest than the young kid being given gear.

Also the best ambassadors are the ones with sponsorship from a shop rather than a brand, they then get to choose from a range of gear

surfingboye said...

Saffer said...

True, but if a kite backstalls, just say it. You gain more credibility with an honest review than a pimp which most prospective buyers can see through. I tend to think it's not about what you do and don't like about a kite, it's why you do and don't like them that gives the added spin. I.e. there is nothing wrong with saying a kite doesn't unhook very well if it's prospective market is unlikely to unhook.

Yep, I guess this is why every post that mentioned BWS kites back in the day when they first came out were red thumbed. That marketing ploy was so obvious...
Some people are probably still put off the brand due to the ton of pimps filling the pages of Seabreeze...

Switch had the same problem. They tried to promote the brand by saying team riders had to post X number of positive posts on forums. It resulted in more damage than good and people just ignored every switch post they saw.

I won't buy Best because their brand of viral marketing kicked this off in the beginning and it was exactly like forum spam.

waveslave said...

Sometimes ...

(not always) ...

Teamriders are required to fib abit about certain aspects of product on this forum.



Do teamriders really have any cred ??

which teamrider group are you talking about?

Ive been a team rider for bws and no ones required me to make any comments on public forums.

they have their private facebook group for feedback to the designer. the rest is just personal opinions. just like anyone buying a new kite and are stoked with it.

Ive found in the past that its only after a season of any kite being released you get snippets of info on forums about the negative aspects of a kite. and every kite has some negative aspects. its just whether its going to affect you a lot or not.

I for one welcome any review that has enough detail and reveals the writer has some inherent knowledge about kites, how they fly and can summarise their findings. I'd rather read an obvious biased (they tend to be this anyhow) team riders expose on a kite ( or a board, harness, bar and lines) than a lot of the topics that are presented. After all it is the gear we use every day, the equipment we are actually on the water that to me is priority.

I will give you an example of a poor review. There is a topic on the kiteforum that is on its 6th page about an obvious mako rip off with some personal modifications. This dude with obvious enthusiasm has basically rubbished every other board design on the market, saying this board is the ultimate and nothing else is worth looking at. To top of this idiocy he was using 2008 shinn boards as his baseline!!

I also don't subscribe to the one liners. This kite is the best, this board rocks etc. Why does it rock!

My obvious hectic change of gear was driven by a decision 3 years ago that it was about time I found the right gear for my disposition and style. In the process I have ridden some exceptional kites and boards but there was always something that didn't click. Unfortunately for my back pocket this took more than one or two demos. Bit what it did teach me, coupled with the previous 10 years is to correlate the aeronautics and board design specifics with empirical evidence. It has sky rocketed my understanding of kites and boards. There was also some honestly on my part, to understand what I'm capable of and how I ride. Sometimes this happens quickly for someone, but my all rounder approach to kiting led me into this market.

What I found? That all rounder kites do everything okay but nothing great. People will disagree with this or they may feel that okay equals very good and/or even okay is perfect for them.

So I demoed lots of kites, the last one a specific kite like an edge. Two tacks and the game was over.

Then when I went on a REO and just wave rided, loved it. Specific kites for specific purposes seemed to resonate with me.

But I wouldn't dismiss team riders, use their input, put this up against other riders reviews and even the marketing BS. pM the lot of them. Collate it all, sit down and read, read, read then demo.

So all input to me is welcome even the biased ones ( lets face it they all are even mine).


Ps the Sri Lankans are in a spot of bother. Bird looks the goods and Johnson is looking dangerous again.

Perhaps a bit more complexity in the replies than Slave was hoping for. Slave is anti-shop, anti-team-rider and would appreciate if you'd all fall into line with him and write off anyone who ever took the time to share their knowledge and maybe made a buck or got subsidised gear in the process.

Obviously there are teamriders who lack subtlety and nous when it comes to their "reviews." That's hardly a revelation.

Obviously there are also cynics who lack subtlety when it comes to expressing their anti-industry bias. Slave is one of them.

Yet, for better or for worse, the industry - team riders and shops included - is what enables us to have any of this gear at all. Making your own board may be feasible, but making your own kite? It's far too precise an operation for anyone to compete with industrial production. Industry means brands, promotion, information, and sometimes mis-information. If Slave doesn't like it he should make all his own gear from now on, or only offer constructive input rather than ranting diatribe.

I think the team riders who are in for the long haul will have the sense to recommend specific gear to specific user groups and avoid meaningless blanket statements. They will offer feedback to designers and shops, and take seriously the concerns of users of their sponsor's products. They will look out for the interests of all kiters at the beach in terms of safety, access, and just offering friendly tip here and there.

It's a small community and a small industry. Any individual or business who regularly misleads will soon have a stinking reputation and the fate they deserve.

For myself, as a team rider I am happy to recommend my sponsors' gear. If I didn't like it I wouldn't ride it. It's not like I'm on a Slater-sized endorsement. If I felt I had to sell my soul to pimp gear it wouldn't be worth it for me. I'm a team rider because I tend to be up for helping out anyway. I may as well get cheaper gear for doing what I already do.

Waveslave is always looking for a target for his frustrations. He sometimes makes a decent point, but just as often reveals more about himself than about those he seeks to cut down.

surfingboye said...
Waveslave is one frequent forum poster who I have no idea what gear he rides...
Usually you can pick up what brand kite someone uses, but not him. He gives away nothing.
I reckon he rides Best Waroo's. Stuck in the 2007 bow kite revolution...
Lol.

From the pics Waveslave has uploaded, among numerous gorgeous women, only two brands appear...

eppo said...

surfingboye said...
Waveslave is one frequent forum poster who I have no idea what gear he rides...
Usually you can pick up what brand kite someone uses, but not him. He gives away nothing.
I reckon he rides Best Waroo's. Stuck in the 2007 bow kite revolution...
Lol.

He rides best kahoonas V4 I think, might be v3 and a home made board. He's not a bad sailor guys,

Also when you get to know him he's actually not a bad bloke, just like the rest of us. Sure he has is quirks but hey all of us a weird in some way. I mean I like to dress in women's underwear at night....oh sh1t...I mean I like to watch opera....I mean (not sure which of the last two is worse actually ).

I really think the over reaction to the so called pimps is quite hilarious. As the wise owl djodjo ( does anyone have trouble getting his d's and j's in the right spot, Farq me), if the team rider sh1ts in his own nest eventually he stinks too much. Of course I have eppofied his comments. Lol.

When information is free you need to pick the eyes out of it as their is good and downright stupid. Watched the 730 report or read a paper recently. They all appeal to the IQ of someone just above a parrot and that's being really harsh on the parrot. There is a lot of dumb farqs out there (eppofied).

They get ripped off its called natural selection. Gotta have gun fodder my dear colleagues.

haha.
and thats going easy on TT, ACA and the daily tele...
but does he sail?

dorothyinste said...

Eppo rides for his own team.

i give him more 'cred' then 'team riders'.

Right-on Dorothy. ^^^

Teamriders are totally fake.

lol.

I rate the honesty of Eppo reviews.

Keep up the good work, dude.

Plummet said...

waveslave said...

dorothyinste said...

Eppo rides for his own team.

i give him more 'cred' then 'team riders'.

Right-on Dorothy. ^^^

Teamriders are totally fake.

lol.

I rate the honesty of Eppo reviews.

Keep up the good work, dude.

So what is needed is an independant honest reviewer that does not profit from the review. perhaps that's service somebody can supply the kite companies. would they have teh balls to send kites to such a person that will give a warts and all opinion?

If it pays over $200K/year send me a PM and I'll send you my CV.

SaveTheWhales said...
Some of the big kite magazines like kiteworld, kiteboarder and sbc kiteboardig - are usually more reliable for reviews giving you the brand hype, and then the pros n cons from a control group point of view.

Hmmm. I tend to disagree a lot with this statement.

Magazines may give you some sort of idea of what a kite might be like (i.e. ok for waves etc.) but there is no way they will give you a real review with positives as well as negatives of kite performance. Otherwise they would loose sponsorship dollar and that is the only thing they survive on.

eppo said...
As I said before I feel all input is valuable. The more sources the better. Maybe a discussion on how some of the experienced crew choose their kites may be useful. From research to what they do when they demo a kite to when they buy. This may help crew choose the right kite.

I know what not to do....lol

With the internet I say this is the key, everyones different the more info out there the better as it helps give the full picture. The thing I find though is often you don't get the range of opinions required to really sort what's what, I think a few of the BWS and even the early REO reviews certainly saw this where there was a lot of possitiive reviews without a lot of this is what this kite is and is not.

I'm also tempted to ask on some of the demo type reviews how many times do you need to fly your kite to really know it and how to get the best from it, think Eppo may have also touched on this on another thread.....hmm I'm not just agreeing with Eppo but quoting him, what's going on here