Another Stupid North kite design

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Triggerhappy

174 posts

Triggerhappy

WA, 174 posts

24 Mar 2012 8:30pm

The knots on the bridle system on the north kites are impossibly small and today my pigtail slipped off and in the process i almost broke my finger as the bar jammed against the stopper in a millisecond. I subsequently heard others have this problem too. Looks like i will need to create my own or tie proper knots in all of them. I am coming to the conclusion that North kites are not up to it. Any suggestions for a new kite?

surfingboye

NSW

2707 posts

surfingboye

NSW, 2707 posts

24 Mar 2012 11:32pm

Old mates LF Havoc...?

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/General/Beware-purchasing-second-hand-kites/

NickT

1094 posts

NickT

WA, 1094 posts

24 Mar 2012 8:52pm

Had a mate help me rig up a demo Vegas, line pinged off 3m up, not the most fun I've had. Bought north that season and always double checked the lines, never had another issue.

ApatheticEnd

995 posts

ApatheticEnd

WA, 995 posts

24 Mar 2012 9:14pm

If the knots get compressed and get too small just tie another. No that hard, just check you gear.

KiteBud

1613 posts

KiteBud

WA, 1613 posts

24 Mar 2012 9:20pm

Yep I agree with NickT, you simply have to make sure your lines are well attached. I've done the same mistake twice, but never again since I started making clean double checked attachments...

rhinoman

QLD

362 posts

rhinoman

QLD, 362 posts

24 Mar 2012 11:20pm

6 seasons of north /3 teaching on north and never had thiis happen .think it might of had a little figure 8 in the end of larks head loop{rolling loop against its natural curve .when making the larks head ,go with its natural curve /make it small when starting it{ like a love heart}.put the knot end in about 2inches .pull larks head closed tight and slide down to the knot end firm ..

Flyinpoleman

QLD

17 posts

Flyinpoleman

QLD, 17 posts

25 Mar 2012 12:49am

had this happen once too, just didnt tighten enough. learnt from my mistake and hasnt happened since.

captainkaos

247 posts

captainkaos

WA, 247 posts

25 Mar 2012 10:42am

I had it happen on an 07 rebel. Line came loose when boosting off a wave, kite went ito death loop and slingshot me 30/40m through the air. Landed heavy and broke a couple of ribs. I was a few hundred meters off the beach and was lucky I had a mate to drag me in with his vapour.

consequaently he named himself "vapour" man cause he thought he was some sort of super hero!! Now he caals himself "Lithium man" cause he has changed model..I am gratefull for his help though as I was having trouble getting any where.

After that incident I used to tie an extra knot on the knot side cause I was so worried about it happening again. I have gotten lazy lately and havnt done it to my 2011 rebels, Just make sure you pull the larks head really tight. It isnt the best in my opinion, needs to be a bit chunkier knot. Thought north would have sorted it by now

mitch88

NSW

271 posts

mitch88

NSW, 271 posts

25 Mar 2012 3:55pm

all comes down to checking your gear and making sure you rig it up right. give it a pull and check that the slip knot is tight. i have a 2012 north rebel and love this kite and trust it 100% in 25+ knots.

Kazan

QLD

699 posts

Kazan

QLD, 699 posts

25 Mar 2012 4:45pm

Forget North Kites mate. These are extremely good and durable... And they self launch easy too..

www.fluidkiteboarding.com/

lostinlondon

VIC

1159 posts

lostinlondon

VIC, 1159 posts

25 Mar 2012 6:45pm

Triggerhappy said...

I am coming to the conclusion that North kites are not up to it. Any suggestions for a new kite?

For something like $10 you could go out and buy a pair of replacement pigtails from a shop like Briskites and solve the issue easily, but you want to go out and wax another grand or so on a replacement kite?

You have a big whinge about the kite but you don't tell us the model of the kite or year either, how many times you have flown it etc etc, so we have no detail to go on. This seems to be a first time occurrence for you so how can it be a "problem" a problem in my book is something that keeps recurring, even after making attempts to repair it.

There is a good piece on SB about conducting your preflights properly and planning for the worst etc etc - gear will break and things come undone even sometimes if you check and double check everything. I don't own a North kite but most people I have met seem to be happy with them and they have a excellent rep from their background in sailmaking.

You would be lucky to find a person here who hasn't had at least one quirky gear failure on their kite, but that is part of the sport and the best way to deal with it is look at your own practices before leaping to savage your gear.

tezza02

QLD

73 posts

tezza02

QLD, 73 posts

25 Mar 2012 8:01pm

due all i can suggest is check and double check when attaching line, out of 5 kites 2 are north vegas's never had a problem which was not caused by myself ,so important not to short cut set up .....

Tezza

eppo

9790 posts

eppo

WA, 9790 posts

25 Mar 2012 8:42pm

lostinlondon said...

Triggerhappy said...

I am coming to the conclusion that North kites are not up to it. Any suggestions for a new kite?

Actually (I fly north kites) I thought the same thing when I first set up the kite/s. I was worried about it actually. The knot is indeed small and I have had it slip off once.

So now I make sure the larks head is extremely tight, hence have had no problems since. Not only is it small - the knot is smooth.

Kitepower Australia

NSW

4382 posts

Kitepower Australia

NSW, 4382 posts

26 Mar 2012 8:09pm

Flyinpoleman said...

had this happen once too, just didnt tighten enough. learnt from my mistake and hasnt happened since.

Yep, thats the right answer. The north pigtail is no different to most other kites on the market. The solution is to place you line larkshead on the pigtail3-4cm back from the knot on the pigtail, then cinch up the line larkshead on the kite pigtail, then slide it down to the end of the pigtail to the knot, then pull it tight again.
Do it this way and it will never come off any brand of kite.

Triggerhappy

174 posts

Triggerhappy

WA, 174 posts

26 Mar 2012 6:46pm

Fixed. Just made a proper knot at the end of all the lines. Now the pigtails can never slip off. Perhaps North will address this issue in the future.

eppo

9790 posts

eppo

WA, 9790 posts

26 Mar 2012 7:50pm

And put a plastic sleeve on the depower while they are at it.

getfunky

4485 posts

getfunky

WA, 4485 posts

26 Mar 2012 10:05pm

I demoed a Rebel a few weeks back and really liked it.

However, I wasn't very convinced by the meagre knots and on launch one front line was either left off in my haste or slipped off. Was very glad to have the 5th line to bail to.

Can't be sure it wasn't my error but for the life of me I can't understand why anyone would design a crucial point of connection so badly.

eppo

9790 posts

eppo

WA, 9790 posts

26 Mar 2012 10:10pm

Could have been either. Takes a while to remember there is one more line to put on lol.

Kitepower Australia

NSW

4382 posts

Kitepower Australia

NSW, 4382 posts

27 Mar 2012 8:21am

Triggerhappy said...

Fixed. Just made a proper knot at the end of all the lines. Now the pigtails can never slip off. Perhaps North will address this issue in the future.

The knot you have tied is plenty big for sure, BUT you have tied it so close to the end of the line there is a risk it could slip and come undone.
Have you melted the tail hanging out the other side of the knot right up to the base of the knot?
Heat weakens the line a lot be very careful when melting line with a cig lighter.

pro merc

NSW

300 posts

pro merc

NSW, 300 posts

27 Mar 2012 11:45am

most brands have a small design issue, North is no different contrary to belief they are the best and cannot release a defective product blah blah blah.

Puetz

2186 posts

Puetz

NT, 2186 posts

27 Mar 2012 1:25pm

Kitepower Australia said...

Triggerhappy said...

Fixed. Just made a proper knot at the end of all the lines. Now the pigtails can never slip off. Perhaps North will address this issue in the future.

... also, make sure the knot hasn't upset the trim of the kite ie if you put a big knot at the end of the front line bridal, you may have to slightly shorten the steering lines by the same amount. And more importantly, if on a 5 line setup, you definetly have to compensate the 5th line by the same amount.

cheers,

Robbie

au_rick

752 posts

au_rick

WA, 752 posts

27 Mar 2012 12:19pm

I noticed my F-One Bandit has the same tiny knots.
I just replaced the pig-tails with Airush ones, much better !

Rooboy

298 posts

Rooboy

SA, 298 posts

27 Mar 2012 4:54pm

Hmm looks like an 09 Rhino which has been well loved to me. Kites have come a long way since then! In saying that sounds like an operator error to me. Connect your lines, make sure they are tight, then check again quickly before launching. I had a similar issue years ago on my 09 Rhino but havent had one since.

getfunky

4485 posts

getfunky

WA, 4485 posts

27 Mar 2012 4:00pm

eppo said...

Could have been either. Takes a while to remember there is one more line to put on lol.

Good thing it wasn't a six line kite. When i run out of fingers i have to start counting again!

I was unimpressed with Ozone's similar itsy bitsy knot on the end of their attchments but i have to say the Ozone knots look like they are on steroids compared to the North's.

Knots like this serve a crucial role in the safe operation. The tiny knot on North kites should never have been allowed into production IMO.

eppo

9790 posts

eppo

WA, 9790 posts

27 Mar 2012 5:53pm

Hey funk what ozone kite did you try. Would have been a catalyst right.

woodys

218 posts

woodys

WA, 218 posts

27 Mar 2012 9:05pm

Kitepower Australia said...
.... cinch up the line larkshead on the kite pigtail, then slide it down to the end of the pigtail to the knot, then pull it tight again.
Do it this way and it will never come off any brand of kite.

Spot on Steve. Hope every school teaches that routine. It is a simple and effective way to be sure ur nooses are tight.
No problem then - even with North

getfunky

4485 posts

getfunky

WA, 4485 posts

28 Mar 2012 8:10am

Yep - had a 2011 Cat 10m for a while. Was good kite but not my cuppa.

On 1st set-up with the Cat I was alarmed at how meagre the connection points were. No dramas in the end (no pun intended) tho.

The Ozone connections are massive compared to the North lugs (only a tiny fraction bigger than normal section of connection line. The issue is compounded by the North lines (from bar) having really robust thick sheathing. This makes them pretty stiff and likely to leave 'wriggle room' when connecting.

As I have said before - Rebel was a great kite and best I have tried for some time but the bad knot design is a real head scratcher.

I wouldn't let it put me off buying the kite, but I would be replacing the connection points before using for sure.

adrenal

VIC

134 posts

adrenal

VIC, 134 posts

28 Mar 2012 1:30pm

Love flying my 2012 Rebel but when I rigged it for the first time, that was the first thing I noticed to the point that I thought there must be some mistake with knots the size of gnats testicles. Was going to go back to the shop! Immediately made me ever so cautious with larks head. Interesting to hear that they are 'standard'.

While we're at it.....Double action high flow pump being pushed through a gnats *rsehole. You can feel the resistance big time. Last session, quite a few weeks back, wind perfect, jumped out of airconditioned car started pumping furiously and promptly did my back in. Seriously, haven't been able to kite since and just coming good after a month just as Autum is upon us! When are North going to change to a high flow elephants *rsehole like other enlightened brands?

There's an elephants *rsehole for a dump valve but it's in a silly position at the wingtip. Can't dump the air while safely holding the kite at centre of leading edge in smiley face position. And makes it harder to pack.

Still, love flying my Rebel Gnat.

And then there are those graphics!!

Still, love flying my GRG (Gaudy Rebel Gnat)

Triggerhappy

174 posts

Triggerhappy

WA, 174 posts

28 Mar 2012 10:39am

Puetz said...

Kitepower Australia said...

Triggerhappy said...

Fixed. Just made a proper knot at the end of all the lines. Now the pigtails can never slip off. Perhaps North will address this issue in the future.

I put the knot on all 5 lines to make sure i didn't have an imbalance. No need to melt or cut anything. Then flew it to check. This hardened the knots considerably.

eppo

9790 posts

eppo

WA, 9790 posts

28 Mar 2012 11:18am

adrenal said...

Love flying my 2012 Rebel but when I rigged it for the first time, that was the first thing I noticed to the point that I thought there must be some mistake with knots the size of gnats testicles. Was going to go back to the shop! Immediately made me ever so cautious with larks head. Interesting to hear that they are 'standard'.

While we're at it.....Double action high flow pump being pushed through a gnats *rsehole. You can feel the resistance big time. Last session, quite a few weeks back, wind perfect, jumped out of airconditioned car started pumping furiously and promptly did my back in. Seriously, haven't been able to kite since and just coming good after a month just as Autum is upon us! When are North going to change to a high flow elephants *rsehole like other enlightened brands?

There's an elephants *rsehole for a dump valve but it's in a silly position at the wingtip. Can't dump the air while safely holding the kite at centre of leading edge in smiley face position. And makes it harder to pack.

Still, love flying my Rebel Gnat.

And then there are those graphics!!

Still, love flying my GRG (Gaudy Rebel Gnat)

Again agreed! Pumped up the Ozone kites for the demo with the big ass valve and sooo easy. My 11m takes at least 100 pumps - I count to reduce the pain.

The dump valve is so you can roll it up from one side to the other, but so what! Yehs you have to inch along the leading edge to get to it. Just weird.

Hey when I dumped the air on the ozone it came out real fast man - is that bad for the kite??

someawe

179 posts

someawe

WA, 179 posts

28 Mar 2012 11:25am

Hey Eppo, because you are the worlds leading expert on rebels, can you get your people to contact North's people and have them change the colours on next years kites?? I agree with adrenal they are crap graphics. I do love flying my rebel tho!

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