Brien said...

To "superlizard",.... if your wifes double parking had caused another lazy parent to run over a kid you might think differently. If you have ever had to see people dead on the road you would have a different view. That is why highway patrol police don't flinch when they write you a ticket.... because they have seen to many "good drivers" bleeding on the bitumen.

I agree that some rules and regulations are over the top and they are often enforced without reasonable discretion, but road rules are there for a reason.... think about the people who have to clean up the mess and tell your families that you took your wool off for the afternoon.

There are times and places to push your limits.... namely when a mistake will only kill yourself and not others around you.

Stop whining.

Brien, if you had to look half an hour for a parking every day for two years with another toddler in the car so that your kid can just come out of the car (which takes 5 seconds), and the council did not give a sh1t about solving the issue and providing a dropoff zone but instead kept increasing the tax rates, you might think differently too, being in her situation. I didn't say she does that every day, and when she did it she made sure no one was behind her, hence she couldn't have caused anyone to run over a kid. So you are telling me that you support the council's strategy to spend money paying ticket inspectors to hide like bus.tards taking away parent's parking spots and fine people for such ridiculous reasons (BTW few of my friends received totally illegitimate parking fines by the same council), instead of investing money and effort to solve such important safety issue??? If you think that, I think you lack common sense and logic mate. If they (council or government) were concerned about safety and seing dead people on the road they would have done something about solving this issue, but this way works better for them... less money spend, plus they can profit on innocent hard working families.

Here is another example: I get fined for riding a 600 cc bike, two weeks before my probation period ends, and two weeks before they increase the legal limit to probationary motorcycle riders to 600cc. So, if the government already decided that 600 cc is safe enough for probationary riders, and only because of the logistics the law hasn't came into play yet, why did the cop fine me if this is ALL JUST ABOUT SAFETY? If you can argue that their actions have any ethics whatsoever, then you are either a cop or work for government and look after your own profit ... in which case i understand why you challenge my thinking. (And i don't mean any of this in an offensive manner to you, just having an open discussion here)

(BTW even if they haven't changed the law, it still didn't make sense, as you could have a guy who got his license, and never riden a bike for a year, and then went and bought a 1200 cc race bike, yet the law is ok with that and that's completely safe, but if you ride a small learner bike for 6 months every day, and gain valuable experience, you still can't ride faster bike for another 6 months.... )?!

sandgroper said...

So far as stopping to avoid (eg) a pedestrian - well WTF was the idiot doing stepping out in front of you? People must take basic precautions for their own safety on the roads.

WTF? What if it happens to be a 7yr old child? Should he/she also be responsible for their own actions?

superlizard said...
Here is another example: I get fined for riding a 600 cc bike, two weeks before my probation period ends, and two weeks before they increase the legal limit to probationary motorcycle riders to 600cc. So, if the government already decided that 600 cc is safe enough for probationary riders, and only because of the logistics the law hasn't came into play yet, why did the cop fine me if this is ALL JUST ABOUT SAFETY? If you can argue that their actions have any ethics whatsoever, then you are either a cop or work for government and look after your own profit ... in which case i understand why you challenge my thinking. (And i don't mean any of this in an offensive manner to you, just having an open discussion here)

So to put this into perspective, you broke the law, knowing it was the law, because you were too excited to wait 2 weeks, and now you're trying to blame this on the government and the police? How about something called "taking responsibility for your own actions"?. Sorry, you deserved to get fined, the law is the law. If we shift the lines, where do we stop? Its okay to drive without your drivers or learners because its only 2 weeks until you turn...

sandgroper said...
Speed limits are fine on flat roads and metro areas but there needs to be some tolerance in the country where hills, wind, and the openness can cause your car speed to increase without your immediately realising it.

Official Cautions should be issued for ppl exceeding the limit by less than 10kph in 100kph or 110kph zones, with 3 cautions in 12 months constituting an infringement. Some outback areas should have the limit raised to 130kph as it now is in the NT which will help mitigate the problem of driver fatigue.

If you can't keep your speed accurately on uphills and downhills you should be on a P plate, or better yet, an L plate. Its not hard, you just have to want to do it. If they put in a caution system, people will abuse it and drive 10km/h faster knowing they can get away with it.

superlizard said...
Pretty close but not quiet. For starters, i ventured into this knowing that i may get fined, and i was prepared for that and didn't give a rats arse about getting that fine. It was well worth it for me, as i felt way safer on the heavier and safer 600 cc touring bike, than a small sh1tty 250 which i almost got blown off each time crossing the westgate bridge. I also started riding 600cc after 9 months of legaly riding the 250cc EVERY DAY as i felt i had enough experience and responsibility to move on so i didn't put my self nor anyone else in danger. But speaking from logistics point of view, you are correct - i did broke the law because i have a spine to stand up for what i believe (unlike most of general public). And I don't blame anyone nor government for getting this particular fine, i just proved that their actions are focused solely on money and revenue generation in this instance. The cop didn't fine me because he was worried about my safety, but because he wanted to squeeze the last penny while he had the chance. You completely missed my point or the point of this thread. This thread is not discussing whether law offenders should receive fines (as i never disputed that). My point was about ethics of some of the authority's actions.

Could you imagine the problem if every person just drove when they felt safe instead of following the law? Laws were brought in to deal with differing judgements regarding what two different people may consider safe. You for example, may feel safe after 9 months, but hey, what if I feel safe after 6 months? Can I also just start riding a larger bike when I feel like it?

This has nothing to do with ethics. You were driving illegally. The cop is not there to make judgement calls on whether you are safe driving a bike after 9 months of riding every day, he's there to uphold the law and the law says you were riding illegally. If you think he showed a lack of ethics, or regard for your safety, you should remember you are dealing with someone who has to deal with people who think they know better every day.

this whole thread is exposing the holes in our laws, and you are still not able to see it:

- high spead limits on dangerous and narrow roads, and low limits on big wide freeways
- 1 year restrictions on bike capacity, instead of providing adequate training and testing to ensure people are skilled enough to upgrade to bigger bikes (didn't you read what i said, what is there to stop someone getting a license, and after 1 year without any experience getting a fast bike... nothing... where is the safety in that - and i've seen people do this)

The thing is in normal circumstances, where a law is in place and it's not about to be changed, i'm all for authorities making sure that the laws are upheld. But this time cop knew that the amended new law is about to take place in two weeks... the authorities already decided that 600cc is now adequate for beginners... how the hell was he contributing to the safety of anyone on this planet, apart from making extra profit?? If he wanted to uphold the law, i'm sure he would have found much more useful places to spend his time. (such as stopping the thiefs from steeling GreenPat's bike)

Are you a cop perhaps?

superlizard said...

this whole thread is exposing the holes in our laws, and you are still not able to see it:

- high spead limits on dangerous and narrow roads, and low limits on big wide freeways
- 1 year restrictions on bike capacity, instead of providing adequate training and testing to ensure people are skilled enough to upgrade to bigger bikes (didn't you read what i said, what is there to stop someone getting a license, and after 1 year without any experience getting a fast bike... nothing... where is the safety in that - and i've seen people do this)

The thing is in normal circumstances, where a law is in place and it's not about to be changed, i'm all for authorities making sure that the laws are upheld. But this time cop knew that the amended new law is about to take place in two weeks... the authorities already decided that 600cc is now adequate for beginners... how the hell was he contributing to the safety of anyone on this planet, apart from making extra profit?? If he wanted to uphold the law, i'm sure he would have found much more useful places to spend his time. (such as stopping the thiefs from steeling GreenPat's bike)

Are you a cop perhaps?

Not a cop, just enjoying seeing them take the brunt of people's blame for their own mistakes.

Irrespective of whether it was decided or not, what you did was illegal and you knew it. Accept it and move on. You knew the risks, it had nothing to do with the cops lack of ethics, he was upholding the law. If a cop pulls me over for lane splitting, I'm not going to blame the cop, its my own fault.

You could easily argue that if we didn't have people doing lesser crimes, police would have no reason to pull people off the road to check their licenses to see if they were riding bigger bikes than they should and they could devote their time to more important things.

Incidentally, I'd rather see cops pulling over random people than have speed cameras. At least its more chance of people getting picked up for driving without licenses, D.U.I etc which is taking dangerous people off the road. I'd also argue that if you had stolen your bike, he would probably have picked it up when he stopped you so isn't he doing what he is supposed to?

superlizard said...
i didn't make a mistake. I took a choice that provided greater safety in my opinion which is not just a gut feel, but derivative of research, and advice given by experienced people/riders. but if it makes your life more interesting, you are free to think that i made mistake.

The argument i was making is about his motives and that he did what he did so that he can squeeze more profit out of me... and if you can't see that, then i can't help you as you are clearly set in your way of thinking.

If you really took a choice made based on a derivative of research and the opinion of experts you would be riding a 50cc scooter not a 900cc Bike. The accident rates on them are so low that some states allow you to ride one on a vehicle drivers.

Do you really think that cops just sit there scheming about how much money they can make out of individuals? Or do you think that maybe, the real reason he gave you a fine is so *this may come as a shock*, you wouldn't do it again?

Gorgo said...

mikekx102 said...

Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a regulation or whatever that manufacturers are allowed to make a car with a spedometer that is 10%+4 out..... meaning that in a 70 zone you could be driving a car at what the spedo says is 70 km/h and actually be going at 81 km/h....

Bullshi.t! Get yourself a GPS and check your speedo. You will find it to be dead accurate at 60k. Most cars have a 4-5k error reading high at 100-110. (ie. You'll only be doing 96 when it reads 100kph).

All that whinging about speed errors come from cu.nt that are too stupid to drive on the speed limit. They should all find a brick wall and exceed the speed limit straight at it. Cu.nts!

Well I did say correct me if I'm wrong, not call me a cu.nt. but anyway.... look I got those figures from some stupid 60minuites or whatever i watched when i was bored about a year ago. Mabee it was today tonight?

Take a chill pill you dickhead!

Sorry. I was responding to what I saw as yet another repeat of the claim that there is a 10% error allowed in the speedometers therefore it is impossible to drive on the speed limit because speedos not accurate enough. It's not true and I can prove it easily.

I'm sure you are not personally a **** but drivers who habitually speed and try to justify their behaviour certainly are.

BTW. People are not perfect and with all the care in the world people will exceed the speed limit, either accidentally or even deliberately. Being unlucky enough to get a speeding fine is just part of driving. Statistically there are so few cops and so few speed cameras that the chances of getting a ticket are very slim.

If you are getting booked on a regular basis it is because you are not even trying to observe the speed limits and you deserve everything you get ... including being locked in a cell with Ivan Milat.

Hmm..

Maybe if drivers learned that the correct action when faced with a 'situation' isn't always to stamp on that middle pedal and close their eyes? All those nice stopping distance statistics would be irrelevant: How many accidents do you see where the black lines lead straight to the scene of the accident, yet simply letting off that pedal and twirling the big wheel in front of the driver could have avoided a mess?

Sure speed kills - if we never went anywhere, we'd never have accidents, but get real. P1ss poor driving kills. That includes inappropriate speed, but doesn't mean the world will end if I exceed 110kph.

As for australian speed limits, they mean I'm far more likely to fall asleep at the wheel than anything. Seriously, the speed myopia in vic particularly makes for some of the most incredibly unaware, unpredictable drivers I've had the displeasure to mix with. I'd rather drive round milan in rush hour. Nutters for sure, but at least they know what's going on around them.

As for the hypothetical 7 year old mentioned earlier, the kid shouldn't be ****ing around by the road unsupervised. About time people (parents too) took responsibility for their own actions, and consequences thereof, rather than making it everyone else (and particularly the motorist's) fault.

mark1234 said...
As for the hypothetical 7 year old mentioned earlier, the kid shouldn't be ****ing around by the road unsupervised. About time people (parents too) took responsibility for their own actions, and consequences thereof, rather than making it everyone else (and particularly the motorist's) fault.

Agree on that one as well.....where are the parents ?.....just last week a THREE year old was attacked by a dog in a carpark in NSW ( I think ) the report was she was playing in the carpark whilst her parents were in a nearby BEER GARDEN. WTF the child is three why is she playing in a public place without supervision..... the dog will probably end up being destroyed but for all we know it could have been defending itself from an ear or tail pulling.... who knows !!
But almost certainly it could all have been avoided if the parents took responsibility and supervised the child.

One more..... WTF are 14 and 15 year old kids getting involved in stabbings in the city at 2-3 -4 in the morning.....WHERE ARE THE PARENTS !!!! what parent in their right mind would allow a 14year old to wander around the city in the early hours of the morning..... not only that but they end up stabbing someone and get a slap on the wrist and are hanging around the same spot the following week.....