cbulota said..

swoosh said..
You can call it a cheap chinese foils, but in reality, its likely no cheaper than what the big manufacturers are paying for their foils from the chinese factory. So are they cheap, or are the other foils overpriced?

Well said, although remember these are direct copies which means all the hard work has already been done and paid for by someone else. Other foils seem overpriced because people involved between the factory and the customers i.e. distributors and shops have to make profit before it comes to you. I also wonder what kind of warranty you would have on those if you had a defect ? James ?

Back to the review about the foil we tried with James 2 days ago. I can vouch for the build quality, it looks and feels just as strong as any other big brand name foil I've tried.

Due to the front wing being so large and wide you can foil at extremely LOW speeds (10km/h or 5-6 knots of forward speed i.e. not the wind speed but the speed you are moving at). The foil I'm used to riding for the last 3 years has a quite large front wing as well but requires double that speed (20km/h) before lifting off. By comparison, a race foil would need somewhere between 25 and 30km-h of speed before lifting off.

The foil is also very stable and incredibly easy to ride. All this makes it the SAFEST and most Progressive foil I've ever tried. For this reason we plan to use it in our foiling lessons for complete beginners.

The downside is that it's actually hard to ride with the board touching the surface of the water (i.e. without the foil lifting off), since any forward speed above 10km/h makes the foil rise up instantly. When you are learning it's important that you go through the stage of riding the board flat without the foil lifting off. It's a massive difference from any other foil I tried, you have to be very gentle with the kite and water start with as little power as possible, i.e. you will have to make some BIG adaptations from your usual water starts if you are learning to foil from scratch with this particular foil.

The other downside is that it's obviously very slow. The easiest way I can describe it is like driving with the handbrake on. I think it would be nearly impossible to go any faster than 30km/h on this foil. So even though it's an excellent beginner foil I think you can outgrow it quickly and might soon want something faster.

Christian

Good review from Christian.

I have had a few more sessions on it than he has and I can ride this happily on the surface , it is all to do with how you set the mast up. Set of for normal riding its requires minimal effort to fly, so if you want to ride it flat you just need to keep your weight forward with a narrow stance. If you wanted to make it really hard to fly, you would just move the footstraps further forward - ie all of these characteristic can be tuned in our out depending on how you want to ride. I am recommending the mast plate be set 380-400 mm behind the front footstraps straps as "neutral" or a normal position (380 - 400mm between the narrowest bolts to be accurate - front plate bolt, rear strap screw). This will ensure even weight on both feet and very easy foiling trim. (Mast forward = more list & more pressure front foot, mast back = less lift & pressure).

re outgrowing it - this is totally subjective and depends on what the rider wants from his/her equipment. I "outgrew" the $3,000 MKA Mako and Levttaz Aspect kite foils - does this mean i mastered them ? No of course not, it means my riding developed in a different direction and I needed a slower foil to continue to progress further. So i have gone from slow learner to fast and back again with my own journey.

I think its not accurate to assume everyone wants to go faster and that is the only direction one can progress in. Faster is not necessarily better - I know 2 people personally who have sustained severe foot injuries requiring surgery and 6 months off the water due to crashing foils at high speeds with feet caught in footstraps. Its called a Lisfranc Injury (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisfranc_injury) and is quite common as it turns out. Having said that, I hope no one buying this foil is under the impression it is the same as 1) a kite specific hydrofoil or 2) fast enough to go racing on. They will be disappointed.

For reference my average session stats on the Surf Foil is ~6 knots (~12 kmh) with a max of 12 knots (22kmh). As Chris pointed out, a race foil typically foils around 6 knots minimum, goes upwind at 18-22 knots (33-40 kmh) and downwind at 40+ knots in the right hands (75 kmh - Nico Parlier).

Remember this is a SUP / SURF foil. Its designed as a highly versatile foil than can be surfed prone as well as kited and everything in between.

cbulota said..



all the hard work has already been done and paid for by someone else.

Christian

Yah I image the original designers heart would sink if they read forums like this
As would everyone else on here if their family and future was dependant on the earnings from the hardwork one puts into designing stuff

jamesperth said..
I thought the same thing initially, but a massive long thread on KF kind of changed my mind. This is basically how the free market works and is inevitable.

A few years ago Chinese carbon fiber bicycle frames became widely available online - my cycling mates call them "Chinarellos" - and there was this massive fuss about how they would destroy the bicycle industry. Fast forward 2-3 years and you might see the odd guy riding one - usually the guy who wanted to build up his own bike in the first place), but most people can't be bothered to do the digging around finding the supplier, making payment via Western Union, dealing with customs and import duties themselves and ultimately not having a shop/Brand to go to when they break it. A massive fuss over nothing as it turns out.

My thoughts are that cheaper Chinese foils may entice a more kiters to give foiling a crack , and result in a net increase of second hand equipment foils available to others. This is a good thing. Today, a kiter wanting a new hydrofoil is require to spend $1500 - $2,000k on a piece of kit that requires 10-50 hours of time (success not guaranteed) to be able to used at a basic level. Its a massive committment in time and money for families like me. But, give the masses an "affordable" foil and you multiple that pool of potential foilersx 10, many of whom will upgrade to a higher end product over time. I suggest this greater population might even result in net increase in sales for the Big Brands if you take a 5 year view.

In conclusion, does a Chinese entry level aluminium foil take business away from Liquid Force, Fone, Naish, Levitaz, Banga, Enata or Mikes Lab ? I doubt it in the long run, I reckon it just create more customers for them.

sometimes increasing Supply = increased Demand.

Very well said. Bottom line is that foils are WAY overpriced for what they are and this is a major reason why more kiters don't get into this aspect of the sport.

Not so sure about the overpriced, try and build one yourself the carbon fibre itself is pretty expensive and don't underestimate the labour required to make moulds etc..

Muller said..
Not so sure about the overpriced, try and build one yourself the carbon fibre itself is pretty expensive and don't underestimate the labour required to make moulds etc..

Depends how you go about making it.

You can buy a meter of 12mm thick carbon for under 500US.

That's probably close to 2 complete foils worth.

dachopper said..

Muller said..
Not so sure about the overpriced, try and build one yourself the carbon fibre itself is pretty expensive and don't underestimate the labour required to make moulds etc..

Depends how you go about making it.

You can buy a meter of 12mm thick carbon for under 500US.

That's probably close to 2 complete foils worth.

Then pop it in your $100000.00 cnc machine to shape it?

So I got my board and foil today. It's a beginner set up which I'm happy to use and abuse.

Board quailty is about (8.5/10) board doesn't have any concave underneath but that should worry me as a begginer.

foils (7/10).

The issue I have is they put no holes in the mast to attach the base plate - and some real poor finishing (or postage damage).

**Start with the foil at the rear most point. Move it forwards cm by cm until you have a nice balanced foot pressure when riding. Ride long tacks and assess leg fatigue. Move the foil the opposite direction to which leg is burning (note: Do runs on both tacks just to check its not your technique on one side)

Mark that point. Presto! Perfect alignment. Will probably take several sessions to get it dialled in to the mm.

** Note this applies to riders that can consistently ride the foil. If you have never used a foil before. Start with it at the back and only start moving it forwards once you can ride on the surface consistently.

I was thinking about it last night... I'll just dump a heap of epoxy in it and secure that way.

Positioning the base plate was a real pain only one plate went in "easily" the rest I had to beat in place took a good while to do... sure I probably could of machined the metal plates down a fraction (which I did on two but t was still a pain).

Has this foil been in the water? How did it go?

I ended up getting the Slingshot Hover Glide.....good balance of reputable quality but not too expensive. I've no doubt the GoFoil is delightful....but for my first one and $800 more it was just not in the budget.

Only had 2 sessions though so a fair laearing curve ahead still.....

Would this be a windfoil as well?

jamesperth said..
Another Alibaba option. Have to buy 10 to get the $338 USD advertised price.

Hi James

are these still available from Alibaba, did you or anyone end up bringing in 10 or more.

Regards
peter

I worked in China for awhile so have some experience with Alibaba. It's a lot less dodgy now than it used to be, but you still have to be really sceptical of everything and everyone.
As Brohan says, you can search for hydrofoil and get heaps of results. If you go to Alibaba and select 'suppliers' on the left side of the search box, that will help you cut out some of the middlemen. Everyone on the site claims to be a factory but most are just re-sellers. You can go to the company's site and sort of work out whether they're a producer or not. There are a few types of foils most are selling. Once you've decided roughly what you want you and registered on the site, you can open a Request For Quotation (RFQ). You'll then get heaps of replies and offers. Several companies will sell you one piece and ship to Australia for around $100USD. When it comes time to pay, I STRONGLY advise against using Western Union or T/T (bank transfer). PayPal or escrow are much better. I'm considering an order so if anyone is interested in a group purchase reply here or send me a PM.

This is the foil I'm looking at. Any thoughts?

Trenttdk said..
I worked in China for awhile so have some experience with Alibaba. It's a lot less dodgy now than it used to be, but you still have to be really sceptical of everything and everyone.
As Brohan says, you can search for hydrofoil and get heaps of results. If you go to Alibaba and select 'suppliers' on the left side of the search box, that will help you cut out some of the middlemen. Everyone on the site claims to be a factory but most are just re-sellers. You can go to the company's site and sort of work out whether they're a producer or not. There are a few types of foils most are selling. Once you've decided roughly what you want you and registered on the site, you can open a Request For Quotation (RFQ). You'll then get heaps of replies and offers. Several companies will sell you one piece and ship to Australia for around $100USD. When it comes time to pay, I STRONGLY advise against using Western Union or T/T (bank transfer). PayPal or escrow are much better. I'm considering an order so if anyone is interested in a group purchase reply here or send me a PM.

I bought something off Aliexpress can't remember what but it was around $10-$20. I paid and forgot about it, a few weeks later I went to see what was happening with it so I logged in only to discover no order had been place and there was no history of me buying the item. I sent in a dispute and it seemed like they were going to refund me but then randomly a week later the item arrived. Still nothing on my account to say I bought it though this is why I am a bit hesitant in spending $500+ on a foil.