Whitehaven stock plunge - hoax letter

> 10 years ago
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Simondo
Simondo
VIC
8025 posts
VIC, 8025 posts
7 Jan 2013 3:36pm
Read this;
www.theage.com.au/business/companies/hoax-press-release-sparks-whitehaven-plunge-20130107-2cc47.html


Part of the article;
Jonathan Moylan, an anti-coal activist, compared himself to the Chaser breaking into APEC in defending his stunt, which wreaked havoc on the Australian share market on Monday.


Simondo again:
Sorry Jonathan, the Chaser did cause any stock to lose $314M. I think Jonathan is gunna get sued! Amongst other things, this is a fairly serious case of forgery...

The Chaser's case was a form of forgery, but it was more like a practical joke mixed in with low/mid level forgery (identity forgery)...

Good luck "Jonathan"!
But I'll give you 4.5 Stars (out of 5) for this effort, for trying to save the environment. Well done!
kiteboy dave
kiteboy dave
QLD
6525 posts
QLD, 6525 posts
7 Jan 2013 8:19pm
Look at him he's fkin stoned in his press photo. Hippy tosser.

Mobydisc
Mobydisc
NSW
9029 posts
NSW, 9029 posts
7 Jan 2013 9:25pm
He better call a lawyer. This guy is pretty good.






GalahOnTheBay
GalahOnTheBay
NSW
4188 posts
NSW, 4188 posts
9 Jan 2013 7:49pm
Almost as interesting as the original story, now the Greens back Jonathan Moylan and his actions.

www.abc.net.au/news/2013-01-09/greens-back-anti-coal-activist-after-media-hoax/4458272

So if what he did was illegal, what does that say about the Greens?

Alternatively, I wonder what the Greens would think if the people decided "civil disobedience" was in order for Greens policies / laws?
Mobydisc
Mobydisc
NSW
9029 posts
NSW, 9029 posts
9 Jan 2013 8:16pm
My wife who knows more about corporations and the stock market than I do, said what Jonathon Moylan did is not illegal. It would be illegal if he had been a direction of Whitehaven Coal.
GalahOnTheBay
GalahOnTheBay
NSW
4188 posts
NSW, 4188 posts
9 Jan 2013 9:43pm
I suspect a judge might be having a closer look at that "real soon".

If he's not guilty then expect these to happen more frequently. Yet another reason why the stock market is a mugs game
Cambodge
Cambodge
VIC
851 posts
VIC, 851 posts
9 Jan 2013 10:02pm
The age old adage for buying/selling shares..."Buy on rumour, sell on fact" and you won't get stung by these hoaxes. It's the day-traders that get hit by these hoaxes. Investing in the stock market is pure gambling if you're trading day-by-day get-rich-quick. If you're investing for the long-term then you're not so much gambling as you are pinning your returns on the (expected/hoped for) general economic growth of the nation, which is a fair expectation over the long term.

If that guy was really smart then he would have done some "naked short selling" on Whitehaven shares, i.e. selling shares he doesn't yet own at today's price, knowing that he'll be able to buy them cheap tomorrow when he springs his hoax. But, then, that WOULD be illegal.

I'm not sure you can be prosecuted simply for spreading a rumour. It's up to investors to determine the veracity of information they receive before acting on it.

The above...whatever! But The Greens actually coming out in support of the guy is outrageous. It's morally wrong. Sounds like The Greens believe "the ends justifies the means." They'd change their tune if they were the ones governing!
youngbull
youngbull
QLD
826 posts
QLD, 826 posts
9 Jan 2013 10:48pm
kiteboy dave said...
Look at him he's fkin stoned in his press photo. Hippy tosser.




It appears if we had more stoned tossers our land might stay intact for a little longer.
Yes a few jobs lost - but if we put more effort into agriculture that job problem might diminish a little.
BradPitt
BradPitt
NSW
37 posts
NSW, 37 posts
10 Jan 2013 12:29am
That bloke looks like he's off his nut
gazman2
gazman2
VIC
112 posts
VIC, 112 posts
10 Jan 2013 12:38am
can you believe that anybody would believe that a bank would pull its funds from a mining venture in the first place. ha ha
ThePhil
ThePhil
WA
1322 posts
WA, 1322 posts
9 Jan 2013 10:18pm
So how did he actually do it, just send an e-mail with ANZ logo on it to some newspapers?
pweedas
pweedas
WA
4642 posts
WA, 4642 posts
9 Jan 2013 10:25pm
The guy is a simplistic fool and the greens are a collection of them.
The mining company will suffer no long term damage from this because the dip in share price is only temporary.
However, all the mums and dads who have their retirement funds tied up in super probably took a hit when their super fund bailed out of those shares when the price dropped below their stop loss price.
People like this prick and the greens care nothing about what damage any of their childish stunts do to anyone so long as they think they have gained some publicity.
If it makes them feel better, they made their point loud and clear, and that point is, they are a bunch of irresponsible idiots who are dazzled into a constant state of blindness by their own supposed brilliance.
God help us all if they ever get to run the country.
GalahOnTheBay
GalahOnTheBay
NSW
4188 posts
NSW, 4188 posts
10 Jan 2013 9:03am
How did he do it? Looks like an act in 3 parts

Part 1 - fake a media release. Easily enough done as all you need is an existing release from the company as an example. Apparently this the the fake release document: images.smh.com.au/file/2013/01/07/3934862/Hoax.pdf

Part 2 - get the information published. This is the bit that is not detailed in any news report. Did he inject it in to the official ASX announcements? Did he email it? Did he fax it? Unless he managed to get it posted on the ASX website (a different problem) then whoever got the press release should have verified the source of the document.

Part 3 - people called the number at the bottom of the press release and he answered pretending to be someone from ANZ

Cambodge said...
It's up to investors to determine the veracity of information they receive before acting on it.


That is true. It will be interesting to unpick how the information got around as I am sure there will be a few red faces from people who should have known better.

Mobydisc said...
My wife who knows more about corporations and the stock market than I do, said what Jonathon Moylan did is not illegal. It would be illegal if he had been a direction of Whitehaven Coal.


If he was a director then yes, it's a no brainer (guilty).

Looks like ASIC are running with this: www8.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca2001172/s1041e.html

Not to mention civil damages if anyone decides to chase them.
jbshack
jbshack
WA
6913 posts
WA, 6913 posts
10 Jan 2013 10:41am
But i think he signed the letter from the ANZ bank guy (sorry don't know the name) That with the logo makes it Forgery at worst. Maybe not a prison term suitable, applicable to teh deed but i think he might spend the rest of his life looking over his shoulder

pweedas
pweedas
WA
4642 posts
WA, 4642 posts
10 Jan 2013 1:13pm
It's all ok now.
Latest report is he has apologised to the shareholders. So that's ok then. (in his opinion)

What a dickhead!
bobajob
bobajob
QLD
1535 posts
QLD, 1535 posts
10 Jan 2013 3:19pm
Wonder if he bought in when it dipped? May as well make some money for your effort
Mr float
Mr float
NSW
3452 posts
NSW, 3452 posts
10 Jan 2013 5:36pm
Cambodge said...
The age old adage for buying/selling shares..."Buy on rumour, sell on fact" and you won't get stung by these hoaxes. It's the day-traders that get hit by these hoaxes. Investing in the stock market is pure gambling if you're trading day-by-day get-rich-quick. If you're investing for the long-term then you're not so much gambling as you are pinning your returns on the (expected/hoped for) general economic growth of the nation, which is a fair expectation over the long term.

If that guy was really smart then he would have done some "naked short selling" on Whitehaven shares, i.e. selling shares he doesn't yet own at today's price, knowing that he'll be able to buy them cheap tomorrow when he springs his hoax. But, then, that WOULD be illegal.

I'm not sure you can be prosecuted simply for spreading a rumour. It's up to investors to determine the veracity of information they receive before acting on it.

The above...whatever! But The Greens actually coming out in support of the guy is outrageous. It's morally wrong. Sounds like The Greens believe "the ends justifies the means." They'd change their tune if they were the ones governing!



The greens are governing .they are part of a coalition that includes the independents and labor. i don't like what is happening to the environment and our health as a result of our addiction to cheap fossil fuels but i don't think this kind of action is a good idea and won't win his cause or the greens many fans
Juddy
Juddy
WA
1103 posts
WA, 1103 posts
10 Jan 2013 6:06pm
Flame suit on.....

I'm going out on a limb on this one.

I support what the guy has done for a number of reasons:

1) Political protest - can take many forms; this one was non-violent, direct action. Beats a certain stereotype of lying in front of bull dozers.

2) Drew additional attention to coal mining/climate change without endangering anyone's life.

3) Everything we do is 'political' - an individual's decision to invest in any particular company is their right, but as a shareholder in that company, they are actively participating in the decisions & outcomes of that company's actions. I choose not to invest in coal/uranium/Woolworths (they own too many pokies. My choices, I'm ok with them.) Anyone want to defend investing in a Japanese whaling company?

If somone realised a loss (by selling Whitehaven as a result of this joke) IMO, they shouldn't be in the market.

4) If the professionals in the stock market & media fell for this, I'd hate to think what might happen on 1st April this year...

5) On a lighter note, it certainly was original. Yes, the media has compared this action to those of the "Yes Men". If anyone has seen their work, "culture jamming" the WTO, Union Carbide, etc, this is a variation on those themes.

6) $314 million in losses? Really? Bollocks. Media reports indicated a 'temporary' loss that corrected itself once it was realised to be a hoax.

Believe it or not, share prices are known to go up & down over the course of a days trading. According to the ASX, Whitehaven shares (WHC) opened on 7th Jan @ $3.50; 8th Jan $3.49; 9th Jan $3.50; & today opened @ $3.53.

I commend the guy for his protest, and the Greens support is 100% speaking to their policies about coal/carbon & the mainly untapped renewable energy resources this country is ignoring.

Disclaimer: I don't work as a stock broker etc.
Ted the Kiwi
Ted the Kiwi
NSW
14256 posts
NSW, 14256 posts
10 Jan 2013 9:11pm
Juddy said...

Disclaimer: I don't work as a stock broker etc.


Yep - thats about the only reasonable thing you just said. Let me give you a classic and simplistic but very REAL situation that would have happened that day. The actual numbers are irrelevant here - they are simply to highlight the situation.

Investor owns shares at 1.00.....after the press release they fall straight through the investors stop loss at 0.85 and by the time the investor sells them they get 0.81, they continue to fall to 0.75. The press release is called a hoax so no one else sells them and the next time someone wants to buy them the sellers are now back to 1.00.

If the investor wants to re-purchase his shares he gets them for 1.00 and locks in a 0.19 loss. If the investor doesn't they still lock in a 0.19 loss but has no chance to participate in any upside - which was the reason they were purchased in the first place.

Now lets say the investor owns 10,000 shares - you and your mate just cost him $1,900.....how you feel now? How about all the other investors who got burned that day ? How about all the insto's that stopped out as well? How about your super fund? That is a very simplistic reality check - when leveraged money is involved then things go a lot worse.

What does that do for overall investor confidence in the market place that a stupid idiots who's behaviour is supported by the elected Greens - who essentially hold power in this country at the moment.

Its is bordering on reckless in my opinion and I hope ANZ does chase him for fraud and Whitehaven as well.....I imagine if they do then the idiot's mates at Get-up will launch another attack.
tmurray
tmurray
WA
485 posts
WA, 485 posts
10 Jan 2013 6:28pm
(playing devil's advocate here)
How do you make a public stance against the mining industry? They have millions of dollars to 'invest' in public relations - they are able to make TV, film and newspaper advertisements lauding their 'good deeds' and 'contributions to the community'.
Do you think that any voices against mining are able to
1. afford this sort of media coverage
2. able to access the airtime anyway - I'm fairly sure channel nine news is NEVER going to run an 'antimining' ad during the prime time news regardless of the fees paid because they're not going to upset vested interests. Same goes for all major media players.
So the anti mining interests are stuck with the occasional opinion piece in newspapers or the internet (not exactly a large audience), or they need to stage large scale, disruptive demonstrations to get their message out there. Both are hard to do legally.

In theory we live in a democracy where all voices are equal, but in reality big business gets to shout a whole lot louder than anyone else.

worrier
worrier
WA
726 posts
WA, 726 posts
14 Jan 2013 8:02am
While no totally for or against this guys actions don't believe the mining company's don't occasionally release a false press statement or withhold information which could efffect their stock price.
I worked for the "Big Sth African" (BHP) for a few years and there is definitly some share price maipulation that hurts and benifits the mum and dad day traders as well otherwise we wouldn't need the securities commission would we. 99% of their time is taken up keeping the mining companies honest[:)Gina and Marius don't hesitate to manipulate the system so I wouldn't be too harsh on the "stoned hippy freak".
W.
Doesn't change the fact that the greens are retards though.
Mr Milk
Mr Milk
NSW
3137 posts
NSW, 3137 posts
18 Jan 2013 12:46am
pweedas said...
The guy is a simplistic fool and the greens are a collection of them.
The mining company will suffer no long term damage from this because the dip in share price is only temporary.
However, all the mums and dads who have their retirement funds tied up in super probably took a hit when their super fund bailed out of those shares when the price dropped below their stop loss price.
People like this prick and the greens care nothing about what damage any of their childish stunts do to anyone so long as they think they have gained some publicity.
If it makes them feel better, they made their point loud and clear, and that point is, they are a bunch of irresponsible idiots who are dazzled into a constant state of blindness by their own supposed brilliance.
God help us all if they ever get to run the country.



Facts reported in the Sydney Morning Herald were that there were only a few trades done in the 1/2 hour or so that the hoax was current.
Probably day traders getting burnt/ buying a bit low.
Do you seriously think that super fund managers are that fast to buy and sell shares on "press releases"?
Personally, I hope they think long term.
Mr float
Mr float
NSW
3452 posts
NSW, 3452 posts
18 Jan 2013 8:59am
Mr Milk said...
pweedas said...
The guy is a simplistic fool and the greens are a collection of them.
The mining company will suffer no long term damage from this because the dip in share price is only temporary.
However, all the mums and dads who have their retirement funds tied up in super probably took a hit when their super fund bailed out of those shares when the price dropped below their stop loss price.
People like this prick and the greens care nothing about what damage any of their childish stunts do to anyone so long as they think they have gained some publicity.
If it makes them feel better, they made their point loud and clear, and that point is, they are a bunch of irresponsible idiots who are dazzled into a constant state of blindness by their own supposed brilliance.
God help us all if they ever get to run the country.



Facts reported in the Sydney Morning Herald were that there were only a few trades done in the 1/2 hour or so that the hoax was current.
Probably day traders getting burnt/ buying a bit low.
Do you seriously think that super fund managers are that fast to buy and sell shares on "press releases"?
Personally, I hope they think long term.




Whilst I don't agree with or condone the guys actions I think that is the idea to get the mum and dad investors of anything that is linked to big coal to notice because they don't seem to have noticed any of the weather and climate stuff going on
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