It's nearly finals time.

Highlights from the semi finals. These boats are the bomb. Luna Rossa looks fully sick bro in silver.

Never tire watching these machines sail.

PS - what happened to the commentary?

da vecta said..

Awesome to watch but somehow also sad that (what could be) the world's premier yacht racing has come to this.

I don't agree. This is in the spirit of Americas Cups - the fastest boats we could build, one two or three hulls, doesn't matter.
This is actually hydrofoil and the next could be even wind powered hovercraft !
At these speeds 40- 60 ktn ground effect should allow to build real flying Dutchman !
To achieve that all we need is to replace floor trampoline mesh with honeycomb structure ultra light deck in the form of next horizontal air foil.
Even now strategically attached supporting kite could tip the winning balance.
As an experiment will be quite interesting to see such extraordinary spinnaker on trial runs.

Mark _australia said..

da vecta said..
Awesome to watch but somehow also sad that (what could be) the world's premier yacht racing has come to this.

I dunno... looks like blokes get to to have fun in their chosen sport - financed by millions of women who are dumb enough to spend $2K on a handbag and $5K on a jacket

Which is in turn paid for by the blokes who get to have fun in their chosen sport... wait a minute.

I've watched this on and off for about a year now. I kinda followed last year's races. I've yet to hear an accent that wasn't Australian or New Zealand. slight exaggeration, but it's still perhaps 95%.

If New Zealand can win it back, and change the rules so that it's like State of Origin or something, AUS/NZL will have it in the bag.

P.S. Am I right in thinking the 72s, the trimarans, weren't meant to hydrofoil? Somebody figured it out?

evlPanda said..

Mark _australia said..

da vecta said..

Awesome to watch but somehow also sad that (what could be) the world's premier yacht racing has come to this.

I dunno... looks like blokes get to to have fun in their chosen sport - financed by millions of women who are dumb enough to spend $2K on a handbag and $5K on a jacket

Which is in turn paid for by the blokes who get to have fun in their chosen sport... wait a minute.

I've watched this on and off for about a year now. I kinda followed last year's races. I've yet to hear an accent that wasn't Australian or New Zealand. slight exaggeration, but it's still perhaps 95%.

If New Zealand can win it back, and change the rules so that it's like State of Origin or something, AUS/NZL will have it in the bag.

P.S. Am I right in thinking the 72s, the trimarans, weren't meant to hydrofoil? Somebody figured it out?

Why did they go away from the 12m formula?

incredible !!!! we are clever aren't we !!!!!!

WA71 said..

evlPanda said..

Mark _australia said..

da vecta said..

Awesome to watch but somehow also sad that (what could be) the world's premier yacht racing has come to this.

I dunno... looks like blokes get to to have fun in their chosen sport - financed by millions of women who are dumb enough to spend $2K on a handbag and $5K on a jacket

Which is in turn paid for by the blokes who get to have fun in their chosen sport... wait a minute.

I've watched this on and off for about a year now. I kinda followed last year's races. I've yet to hear an accent that wasn't Australian or New Zealand. slight exaggeration, but it's still perhaps 95%.

If New Zealand can win it back, and change the rules so that it's like State of Origin or something, AUS/NZL will have it in the bag.

P.S. Am I right in thinking the 72s, the trimarans, weren't meant to hydrofoil? Somebody figured it out?

Why did they go away from the 12m formula?

cos they were so sloooooowwwwwwwww

Why did they go away from the 12m formula?

I believe it was because the 12m formula tended to favour very specific hull forms. I think the last 12m AC was 1987 in Fremantle. The fastest boats were optimised for the Summer conditions, and didnt do so well in the spring LVC (but well enough to qualify). The rule tended to favour yachts with big fat pot belllies which were actually really slow in comparison to modern designs of similar size.

Since then there have been a few IACC class AC's - but over iterations they tended towards extrememly narrow hulls (one edge of the rule worked best) so all the hulls became very similar.

Then there was the DOG AC where a giant Tri raced a giant Cat.

Now we have AC72's, which look similar. Who knows what they will have for the next AC in NZ. ;-)

Change is good.

JayBee said..

Why did they go away from the 12m formula?

I believe it was because the 12m formula tended to favour very specific hull forms. I think the last 12m AC was 1987 in Fremantle. The fastest boats were optimised for the Summer conditions, and didnt do so well in the spring LVC (but well enough to qualify). The rule tended to favour yachts with big fat pot belllies which were actually really slow in comparison to modern designs of similar size.

Since then there have been a few IACC class AC's - but over iterations they tended towards extrememly narrow hulls (one edge of the rule worked best) so all the hulls became very similar.

Then there was the DOG AC where a giant Tri raced a giant Cat.

Now we have AC72's, which look similar. Who knows what they will have for the next AC in NZ. ;-)

Change is good.

Yep, change is good but they dont look like a yacht. Well in the traditional sence anyway.

For the layman the new boats look great but the tech is beyond me.

The new AC is a bit like F1, its a great show but a bit hard to understand.

Kite-surfers would never understand that level of tactical and strategy.

Macroscien said..

Issa said..

Macroscien said..

da vecta said..
Awesome to watch but somehow also sad that (what could be) the world's premier yacht racing has come to this.

......strategically attached supporting kite could tip the winning balance.......

NO
??
Easy experiment we could do with two identical small boats. For example 470 or small cat. In one boat could be additionally one person operating 12m kite.
I am sure at specific course to the wind this boat should be faster that another one.

Hi Macro'

I am sure it can be done.

As a matter of pride, it would be a shame if an event run by a yacht club, turned into a kiting event.

Call me old school, but I think it should be all about 'yachts'. I have had difficulty accepting 'cats' contesting the America's Cup, but the result is a very telegenic showcase of technology. That can only be good for all of us.

It is exciting to imagine the technology filtering down. Those centre boards, bent into wings, have got me thinking.

Subsonic said..

evlPanda said..


P.S. Am I right in thinking the 72s, the trimarans, weren't meant to hydrofoil? Somebody figured it out?

They're meant to hydrofoil. One of the teams rather spectacularly pitch poled their uber expensive AC 72 not long after they launched it (from memory the foil ventilated), resulting in near complete destruction of the whole thing. Just listen to the crew talk about how scary it is sailing the AC72s.
I actually think Its a good thing whats happened to the americas cup this time round. The race a few years back with the BMW oracle trimaran and Allinghi cat was kind of a put down. with two completely different designs, it was blinking obvious that one of them would be too fast for the other. It took all of 10min of watching to figure out which one would win. That and the fact that they wouldnt sail in over 15knts of wind
This time round theyre still in big scary fast machines, but the the designs are only tweaky in difference, and they race them come hell or high water (within reason). not to mention they've made it very spectator orientated, both for those watching from shore and on the tv (I like the way they have the speed/distance from competitor etc over the boat). The speeds they move at were only dreamed of by sailors in the not to distant past, and they do it in reasonably close quarters to each other.

You are right, they were not meant to foil. The AC72 rule was written to prevent foiling (but failed). The Kiwis noticed a loophole in the rules (regarding the differential between the hull measured displacement and total displacement) that meant they could build foils which had up to 10% of the displaced volume of the boat. With these "fat" foils they realised they could possibly make the boat foil.
You will also notice that the AC72 rule also says that you cannot sail with both foils down (except for a short period before and after tacking or gybing) so the Kiwi's had to learn to foil on 3 legs (2 rudders and 1 main foil). This was another intended barrier to foiling.

By the time the rest of world realised the Kiwis were foiling their boat (amid many accusations of liberal photoshopping), Artemis Racing were too far down the non foiling path to change for their first boat. Oracle Racing changed their design path and ended up with a boat that wasnt still enough to support itself foiling. Luna Rossa bought the V1 TNZ boat design.
The V2 boats are a lot better from each team though (LR dont have a V2 boat though, but have a V1.5)
There still exists a lot of controversy about the size and location of the rudders on Oracle Racing - it is believed they dont currently comply with the AC72 rule, but that they may not be able to foil as effectively with compliant rudders.

Benny's winged keel has made a comeback!

Next versions should have small winglets (IMO) at the top of that wing sail.
Controllable like airplane aileron should allow to release the stress from the mast , straighten up boat, allow to further increase wing area.
The last , but possibly most controversial could be use of computer electronics to trim sail , rudders and wiglets.
At such speed human reflex is too slow. Similarly to fighter jet ultimate boat will be to unstable to be traditionally hand controlled by crew alone.

JayBee said...

Subsonic said..

evlPanda said..


P.S. Am I right in thinking the 72s, the trimarans, weren't meant to hydrofoil? Somebody figured it out?

They're meant to hydrofoil. One of the teams rather spectacularly pitch poled their uber expensive AC 72 not long after they launched it (from memory the foil ventilated), resulting in near complete destruction of the whole thing. Just listen to the crew talk about how scary it is sailing the AC72s.
I actually think Its a good thing whats happened to the americas cup this time round. The race a few years back with the BMW oracle trimaran and Allinghi cat was kind of a put down. with two completely different designs, it was blinking obvious that one of them would be too fast for the other. It took all of 10min of watching to figure out which one would win. That and the fact that they wouldnt sail in over 15knts of wind
This time round theyre still in big scary fast machines, but the the designs are only tweaky in difference, and they race them come hell or high water (within reason). not to mention they've made it very spectator orientated, both for those watching from shore and on the tv (I like the way they have the speed/distance from competitor etc over the boat). The speeds they move at were only dreamed of by sailors in the not to distant past, and they do it in reasonably close quarters to each other.

You are right, they were not meant to foil. The AC72 rule was written to prevent foiling (but failed). The Kiwis noticed a loophole in the rules (regarding the differential between the hull measured displacement and total displacement) that meant they could build foils which had up to 10% of the displaced volume of the boat. With these "fat" foils they realised they could possibly make the boat foil.
You will also notice that the AC72 rule also says that you cannot sail with both foils down (except for a short period before and after tacking or gybing) so the Kiwi's had to learn to foil on 3 legs (2 rudders and 1 main foil). This was another intended barrier to foiling.

By the time the rest of world realised the Kiwis were foiling their boat (amid many accusations of liberal photoshopping), Artemis Racing were too far down the non foiling path to change for their first boat. Oracle Racing changed their design path and ended up with a boat that wasnt still enough to support itself foiling. Luna Rossa bought the V1 TNZ boat design.
The V2 boats are a lot better from each team though (LR dont have a V2 boat though, but have a V1.5)
There still exists a lot of controversy about the size and location of the rudders on Oracle Racing - it is believed they dont currently comply with the AC72 rule, but that they may not be able to foil as effectively with compliant rudders.

My apologies, I thought the question referred to whether or not they foil. I think it's all for the better they found the loop hole though

Chris_M said..

I was out kiting at Shakespeare Park and I could see them practising out in the Hauraki Gulf - I thought I was seeing the nautical version of alien invasion! I hadnt really been keeping up with the whole buzz, having no TV means I dont even really know what the f*ck is going on in my backyard half the time! I was like what the fu# k are those things burning around?!! Alinghi and Team NZ doing some training ha ha


Even from a km away, you could still clearly tell there was some insanely tech sailing s H ! t going on there!!! So fast!

Edit: This was last December when they were training and developing etc, the Prada boat was at the Wharf