Is the Aussie economy slowing down?

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Torch
Torch
WA
521 posts
WA, 521 posts
25 May 2013 10:55am
In light of recent forecasts of several mining expansions and projects being mothballed, Ford closing its doors in Geelong
and the Aus Dollar falling, what are your thoughts on housing prices in WA?

Im looking to buy in Perth (not my choice) towards the end of this year but should I hold out till next year, since Im thinking things could start changing. Not a burt bubble but a significant price drop.
FormulaNova
FormulaNova
WA
15100 posts
WA, 15100 posts
25 May 2013 2:01pm
Just keep in mind that when things are tight, people like to hang onto property for as long as they can. Also lending policies seem to tighten up.

When I went looking for a house in 2000, the number of houses on the market were relatively low, and trying to get a loan was a pain. 5 years later, more houses on the market, easier to get a loan, but prices were up.

FlySurfer
FlySurfer
NSW
4460 posts
NSW, 4460 posts
25 May 2013 4:44pm
Torch said..

In light of recent forecasts of several mining expansions and projects being mothballed, Ford closing its doors in Geelong
and the Aus Dollar falling, what are your thoughts on housing prices in WA?

Im looking to buy in Perth (not my choice) towards the end of this year but should I hold out till next year, since Im thinking things could start changing. Not a burt bubble but a significant price drop.


It's very difficult to predict... if you owned several properties and you thought the market was going to tank you'd sell ASAP.
If the market tanked then you'd hold on for as long as you could.

If you ask me property is >x2 what it should be... It's like buying an 8m kite/2m sail for $4000.

But I said that in 2007 and it's only gone up since.
The government will probably do everything it can to keep prices high.

Everyone who owns a property thinks it's good value, everyone who doesn't thinks it's ridiculously expensive.

Just remember my friend who lives north of Daytona Beach (Jacksonville) Florida has a 4 bedroom, with ocean views, 3 bathroom, 2 garage concrete house with a nice garden right on the beach (50m from the water) for US$250k.

You can get a fairly OK property in Acton London for GPB180.

We all know Australia's really limited on space.
bene313
bene313
WA
1347 posts
WA, 1347 posts
25 May 2013 2:54pm
Firstly, the coming decline/end (2018) to the investment phase in the resources sector will clearly lead to unemployment in that sector. Unemployment in a primary sector feeds through to secondary and tertiary sectors in the economy (services, retail etc). So the end result is a general down-turn in the economy. There is less money going around, banks are tighter in lending, and as such property prices tend to suffer.

However, the above will likely lead to the following important influences:

- Declining $A. This is stimulating for the economy - nations around the world are currently striving for a currency devaluation due it's stimulating effect.
- Capital previously tied up in the recources sector is now available for other sectors of the economy.
- Low interest rates. Again stimulate the economy.

So while we've been stuck in this "two-speed" economy, a decline in the resources sector will be a welcome change for other economic sectors (particulalry east coast) which have been suffering by way of a high dollar and interest rates. Not so good for WA though due to the flow-on effect from a decline in activity up north.

As for house prices, firstly buying a house is as much a personal/emotive decision as it is a financial one. As for the financial side of things, yes a rise in unemployment and a tightening of lending will not be good for house prices, however we have low interest rates which is of course good for housing.

Furthermore,
1. The Govt will act to prevent a slide in house prices, as this can have drastic flow-on effects.
2. Consider what constitues the price of a house - you have a) land value and b) building replacement cost. In order for house prices to fall, land values OR building costs must fall. Land values are a general demand/supply function so if the Govt releases a tonne of new land we could see land prices decline. Building costs could fall if we have a serious recession, but probably not likely. "Bread and butter" properties in desired locations are unlikely to be as affected as fringe suburbs or high-value properties.

In the end, IMHO we will not see a serious decline in house prices UNLESS we have a serious recession - in which case we're all toast anyway. Likely scenario, no growth for the next decade is my call.

But what do I know - I'm a tax guy not an economist.
FlySurfer
FlySurfer
NSW
4460 posts
NSW, 4460 posts
25 May 2013 5:12pm
bene313 said..
- Low interest rates. Again stimulate the economy.


Can't go much lower if we want to attract foreign capital... and that's what has really boosted lending. We'd need to print a lot more money which would cause devastating inflation if banks were to lend as they have been.
kiteboy dave
kiteboy dave
QLD
6525 posts
QLD, 6525 posts
25 May 2013 6:34pm
Did you not see this current thread about the "Ecomony"?

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/General-Discussion/Heavy-Weather/Whats-the-reality-of-the-Ecomony/
d1
d1
WA
304 posts
d1 d1
WA, 304 posts
25 May 2013 5:50pm
bene313 said..
Firstly, the coming decline/end (2018) to the investment phase in the resources sector will clearly lead to unemployment in that sector.


Your complete post is great and makes lots of sense. However, could you please extrapolate a bit on the "coming decline in 2018" ?
bene313
bene313
WA
1347 posts
WA, 1347 posts
25 May 2013 6:05pm
Decline towards 2018...

www.theaustralian.com.au/nocookies?a=A.flavipes

“The Bureau of Resources and Energy Economics has put some numbers around the likely fall off in resources investment:

bene313
bene313
WA
1347 posts
WA, 1347 posts
25 May 2013 6:20pm
FlySurfer said..


bene313 said..
- Low interest rates. Again stimulate the economy.



Can't go much lower if we want to attract foreign capital... and that's what has really boosted lending. We'd need to print a lot more money which would cause devastating inflation if banks were to lend as they have been.


Interesting point re foreign capital.

As for inflation, it's bad if you hold cash, but if you've got a house/mortgage:

1. Property prices inflate. As do rents.
2. Mortgage values decline in real terms. However the offset to this is higher interest rates.
FlySurfer
FlySurfer
NSW
4460 posts
NSW, 4460 posts
25 May 2013 8:36pm
bene313 said..
As for inflation, it's bad if you hold cash, but if you've got a house/mortgage:

1. Property prices inflate. As do rents.
2. Mortgage values decline in real terms. However the offset to this is higher interest rates.


Inflation is bad for everyone.

1.- House prices can't inflate any more... they're already the most expensive in the world and 10x avg earnings.
2.- Everything you do and consume will cost more... $2 petrol? $5 l milk? Everything... just bcos property seems less expensive is like being totally fark after being in a car wreck and the Dr. saying well at least your pecker still works.
3.- Wages are ALWAYS the last thing to inflate.

In reality what happens is that everything stays the same, except the money you have/earn becomes worth less. So those with cash divest out of it.

When all else fails people turn to the stars... www.news.com.au/technology/science/brighten-up-the-super-moon-is-on-the-way/news-story/69447a0cdaa9eb8e40a58d79dff72c7a
Pugwash
Pugwash
WA
7733 posts
WA, 7733 posts
25 May 2013 9:00pm
Perth property is up this year. Things are selling quickly and at good prices...

It is possible it will come off - but as said above, people tend to sit, not sell. The likely let down will therefore be small - back to 2011/2012 prices...

Will there be a massive crash (prices halved) - my guess is no. As said above, this is land value AND replacement cost. Unless tradies are accepting half the money for new builds, then it is unlikely the established (and more desirable) areas are going to fall to that magnitude.

The rest of my views on why the mining industry is worse in Aus than other places is in the other thread

BTW - with all the predictions of gloom, we must have just passed through the bottom and the slow rise must be due
adolf
adolf
1862 posts
1862 posts
25 May 2013 10:56pm
If you are buying a home to live in you should buy when you can afford to.

Property is likely to go down in value in the short term, but when it does, everything else is likely to follow shortly after.

If you think we are heading for a downturn, maybe it's worth investing in some poverty stocks and wait until Australia really bums out. Here are some tips: Cash Converters, Thorn Group, Money3, FSA Group, Flexigroup. All likely to do quite well if things go belly up.

When you sell your shares you will be all cashed up, and will see peeps living in their garages, begging you to buy their home. You'll be sitting sweet, and doing them a favor. WIN WIN
Rails
Rails
QLD
1371 posts
QLD, 1371 posts
29 May 2013 9:35pm
FlySurfer said..

bene313 said..
- Low interest rates. Again stimulate the economy.


Can't go much lower if we want to attract foreign capital... and that's what has really boosted lending. We'd need to print a lot more money which would cause devastating inflation if banks were to lend as they have been.


bene313 said..

Firstly, the coming decline/end (2018) to the investment phase in the resources sector will clearly lead to unemployment in that sector. Unemployment in a primary sector feeds through to secondary and tertiary sectors in the economy (services, retail etc). So the end result is a general down-turn in the economy. There is less money going around, banks are tighter in lending, and as such property prices tend to suffer.

However, the above will likely lead to the following important influences:

- Declining $A. This is stimulating for the economy - nations around the world are currently striving for a currency devaluation due it's stimulating effect.
- Capital previously tied up in the recources sector is now available for other sectors of the economy.
- Low interest rates. Again stimulate the economy.

So while we've been stuck in this "two-speed" economy, a decline in the resources sector will be a welcome change for other economic sectors (particulalry east coast) which have been suffering by way of a high dollar and interest rates. Not so good for WA though due to the flow-on effect from a decline in activity up north.

As for house prices, firstly buying a house is as much a personal/emotive decision as it is a financial one. As for the financial side of things, yes a rise in unemployment and a tightening of lending will not be good for house prices, however we have low interest rates which is of course good for housing.

Furthermore,
1. The Govt will act to prevent a slide in house prices, as this can have drastic flow-on effects.
2. Consider what constitues the price of a house - you have a) land value and b) building replacement cost. In order for house prices to fall, land values OR building costs must fall. Land values are a general demand/supply function so if the Govt releases a tonne of new land we could see land prices decline. Building costs could fall if we have a serious recession, but probably not likely. "Bread and butter" properties in desired locations are unlikely to be as affected as fringe suburbs or high-value properties.

In the end, IMHO we will not see a serious decline in house prices UNLESS we have a serious recession - in which case we're all toast anyway. Likely scenario, no growth for the next decade is my call.

But what do I know - I'm a tax guy not an economist.


Second - point
Invest in geothermal
Australia is full of it
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