I don't understand

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Wanga F One
Wanga F One
QLD
231 posts
QLD, 231 posts
21 Aug 2013 8:54pm
Mass vs weight. So I get weight is the force of gravity and mass stays consistent where ever it is.
So how is mass measured. Yes in pounds or kgs but what is a the benchmark for a kg of mass?
The more I try the less I get it.
Cambodge
Cambodge
VIC
851 posts
VIC, 851 posts
21 Aug 2013 8:58pm
Mass is a property of the object. Weight is the force that the mass exerts.

I think you can only derive the mass indirectly. By finding out it's weight and then backing out the gravity multiplier for the particular planet on which you're doing the measurement.
Cambodge
Cambodge
VIC
851 posts
VIC, 851 posts
21 Aug 2013 9:01pm
Wanga F One said...
[br]what is a the benchmark for a kg of mass?



I think it's a platinum bar sitting in France...or maybe I'm mixing that up with the metre length?

These days it's probably defined as a specific number of a certain type of atom.
dinsdale
dinsdale
WA
1227 posts
WA, 1227 posts
21 Aug 2013 7:18pm
Mass, a scalar quantity, is measured on a beam balance. Standardised weights on1 side and the "mass" on the other. You have weight, a vector quantity, sussed closely enough. The simple way to measure it is to suspend the "weight" on a calibrated spring with a scale next to it. In other words you're measuring the effect of gravity on that "weight". With a beam balance gravity acts equally on both sides of the beam, therefore mass is unaffected by a change in gravity.
dinsdale
dinsdale
WA
1227 posts
WA, 1227 posts
21 Aug 2013 7:33pm
Cambodge said..
Wanga F One said...
what is a the benchmark for a kg of mass?

I think it's a platinum bar sitting in France...or maybe I'm mixing that up with the metre length?

Yep, mixing it up with a metre.

Recently a metre was based on the wavelength of krypton-86 radiation, but now it's the distance (or should that be displacement - I'm not sure) light travels in a vacuum in 3.33564095198152e-9 seconds.

The kilogram is now the only metric (SI) unit which is defined by a standard artifact rather than some obscure fact from physics.
Harrow
Harrow
NSW
4521 posts
NSW, 4521 posts
21 Aug 2013 9:40pm
Weight is actually the force exerted by a mass due to gravity, and so it is measured in Newtons. However, for convenience and by convention, scales are then calibrated to read the mass equivalent in kg. You will remember that F=ma, so for a 1kg mass, m=1 and a = 9.8, so F = 1x9.8 = 9.8 newtons. But, instead of writing 9.8N on the dial of your bathroom scales, they write 1kg.

Some scientific scales will show readings in Newtons, but who wants that in their bathroom?
SandS
SandS
VIC
5904 posts
VIC, 5904 posts
21 Aug 2013 9:49pm

you don't understand .
















and, I don't care.
Poodle
Poodle
WA
868 posts
WA, 868 posts
21 Aug 2013 8:16pm
yes, all of the above. Mass is defined by the carbon 12 atom these days. Or it was 30 years ago. But carbon is bad. Aw sheet, back to re-education camp for me
Pitbull
Pitbull
WA
1267 posts
WA, 1267 posts
21 Aug 2013 8:41pm
Harrow said...
Weight is actually the force exerted by a mass due to gravity, and so it is measured in Newtons. However, for convenience and by convention, scales are then calibrated to read the mass equivalent in kg. You will remember that F=ma, so for a 1kg mass, m=1 and a = 9.8, so F = 1x9.8 = 9.8 newtons. But, instead of writing 9.8N on the dial of your bathroom scales, they write 1kg.

Some scientific scales will show readings in Newtons, but who wants that in their bathroom?


Especially when it's Bert and Patty.
theDoctor
theDoctor
NSW
5786 posts
NSW, 5786 posts
21 Aug 2013 10:50pm



my grandma used to go to mass on sunday

Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23652 posts
WA, 23652 posts
21 Aug 2013 9:23pm
We did mass at school but I was no good with numbers so mass confused me. Then again the mass teacher was not very good.

I did good at spelling though.


Macroscien
Macroscien
QLD
6809 posts
QLD, 6809 posts
21 Aug 2013 11:42pm
I wonder if they selling Gold as n mass or weight?
The same ounce could be as much as 6 times cheaper on the Moon, slightly more on Mars but will be quite a precious when sold on Jupiter

busterwa
busterwa
3782 posts
3782 posts
21 Aug 2013 9:45pm
water 1 liter is 1 kilo.as a gauge.
Lead is heavier but softer. Diamond is harder but lighter>
Grain structure is the key to mass.One common thing...as everyone has explained = gravity !
Well dont believe me i
Im going to bed Might get a gob job tonight if she dosent catch me out for being drunk !
mick14
mick14
SA
343 posts
SA, 343 posts
21 Aug 2013 11:40pm
See this is the problem with the Internet... Too many people confusing their opinions with facts.
Battle
Battle
536 posts
536 posts
21 Aug 2013 10:47pm
Green Thumbs to THEdOCTOR and Mark. Always good for a laugh
Although my colleagues must wonder why I bust out laughing all alone in my office..........
dinsdale
dinsdale
WA
1227 posts
WA, 1227 posts
21 Aug 2013 11:49pm
theDoctor said..
my grandma used to go to mass on sunday

No, that was mas.

Harrow
Harrow
NSW
4521 posts
NSW, 4521 posts
22 Aug 2013 7:46am
Macroscien said..

I wonder if they selling Gold as n mass or weight?
The same ounce could be as much as 6 times cheaper on the Moon, slightly more on Mars but will be quite a precious when sold on Jupiter


Gravity also varies quite a bit in different places on earth, so you could arbitrage by buying in one location and selling in another. Unless they weight the gold on balance scales instead of spring, then it would not matter.
evlPanda
evlPanda
NSW
9207 posts
NSW, 9207 posts
22 Aug 2013 11:37am
Harrow said...
You will remember that F=ma, so for a 1kg mass, m=1 and a = 9.8, so F = 1x9.8 = 9.8 newtons. But, instead of writing 9.8N on the dial of your bathroom scales, they write 1kg.



a being acceleration, which we are all constantly doing right now at about 9.8m/second, which I think is pretty trippy.
The 9.8 is, I guess, a constant here on Earth so is just removed from the equation (I didn't really attend high school).

...so you could arbitrage by buying in one location and selling in another.


Interesting exercise
You have a 0.5% difference between the equator and the poles just from centrifugal force, you weigh less at the equator.
Then you lose another 0.3% for every 9,000m of altitude.

So where is the highest location near the equator, and the lowest place nearest a pole, where we can trade gold?

Of course trade costs and transportation are going to kill us.

It's not that far fetched. There are trading companies that setup in locations between major (stock) trading hubs to take advantage of the speed of light. Serious auto trading software wars: www.wired.com/2012/08/ff_wallstreet_trading/
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
22 Aug 2013 4:05pm
dinsdale said..

Mass, a scalar quantity, is measured on a beam balance. Standardised weights on1 side and the "mass" on the other. You have weight, a vector quantity, sussed closely enough. The simple way to measure it is to suspend the "weight" on a calibrated spring with a scale next to it. In other words you're measuring the effect of gravity on that "weight". With a beam balance gravity acts equally on both sides of the beam, therefore mass is unaffected by a change in gravity.


That is a very good explanation.

Another one.

Kamikuza
Kamikuza
QLD
6493 posts
QLD, 6493 posts
22 Aug 2013 4:13pm
Because of you granny knot, fool!
paddymac
paddymac
WA
943 posts
WA, 943 posts
22 Aug 2013 10:30pm
evlPanda said..

So where is the highest location near the equator, and the lowest place nearest a pole, where we can trade gold?



Coincidence that this was on the last episode of QI... what's the point farthest from the Earth's centre?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_points_of_Earth

It is the summit of Chimborazo, in Ecuador, at 6,384.4 km from the earth's centre.

This means that Chimborazo, which is near the equator, is farther away from the centre of the Earth than is the peak of Mount Everest. The summit of Mount Everest is 2,168 m shorter at 6,382.3 km from Earth's centre.

Mark _australia said..

We did mass at school but I was no good with numbers so mass confused me. Then again the mass teacher was not very good.

I did good at spelling though.


Mark, turn in the badge and go on the comedy circuit, you're a natural!

Sailhack
Sailhack
VIC
5000 posts
VIC, 5000 posts
23 Aug 2013 10:15am
cisco said..


Pink shirt...acid wash denim pants...comb-over with Chuck Norris beard & combo of pocket pen & hip pouch - that teacher's got cool written all over him!
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