Housing back to 'affordable'

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pierrec45
pierrec45
NSW
2005 posts
NSW, 2005 posts
28 Jul 2011 11:34am
... article in the Australian.

Frankly I find that hard to believe - they have a graph that predicts a sheer drop to early 1990 prices, but they give little rationale for it.

I just wouldn't bet on their conclusions...

http://www.news.com.au/money/property/australians-still-nurture-home-ownership-dream-despite-massive-hike-in-house-values/story-e6frfmd0-1226103146725
Pugwash
Pugwash
WA
7733 posts
WA, 7733 posts
28 Jul 2011 9:47am
I saw it here: www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-28/capital-city-house-prices-to-stay-unaffordable/2813688

The graph does not show a fall to 1990s prices. It is forecasting that the house price and annual income ratio will fall to around 5:1. This may be a function of decreasing price (or stagnent price) and increasing salary.

House prices in the area in which I live have been belted post-2008 (or 2009ish), 30-35% decrease. But, this data is biased by what is actually selling - i.e. more smaller, unrenovated, affordable houses.
Mobydisc
Mobydisc
NSW
9029 posts
NSW, 9029 posts
28 Jul 2011 11:52am
What these sorts of reports don't really mention is the cost of building and land has skyrocketed over the last couple of decades. Back in the 80s and earlier building contractors were paid cash. They didn't have toilets onsite, workers would piss behind the tree or whatever. There wasn't any OH&S regulations. Builders didn't have to put fences up all over the place. Superannuation wasn't an issue as well as workers compensation. Building codes not as complex.

Since that time all these sort of government regulations have come in. All this stuff costs builders and building contractors time and money. Building is now a very government regulated industry which means extra costs passed onto the customer.

At the same time local and state governments have put in place all sorts of levies such as footpath levies that raises the cost of building.

Meanwhile governments have passed on the cost of opening up land to developers who pass the costs onto the customer.

Also houses are becoming bigger and more luxurious. I'd imagine it would be quite difficult to get a small two or one bedroom house to be built by a project builder.
It would be interesting to see the cost of building an average 3 bedroom brick veneer house in the 70s compared to today.



evlPanda
evlPanda
NSW
9207 posts
NSW, 9207 posts
28 Jul 2011 5:59pm
Who would build an average 70's 3brm brick veneer house on a $400,000 patch of grass?

And why are we so endeared to how 'simple' our houses used to be in the 70's? They had their fancy 3 bedrooms, and power points in every room for luxurious modern gizmos, and internal toilets, and a garage. And often on a 1/4 acre block! What was wrong with a little townhouse from the 30's? The dunny man would come around back, gas lights and a stable.

I mock your luxurious and extravagant 70's house.


Mobydisc
Mobydisc
NSW
9029 posts
NSW, 9029 posts
28 Jul 2011 6:29pm
No one is going to build a 70s brick veneer house today and probably rightly so. Unfortunately it seems that most modern houses are oversized for their block and for the family that lives in it. Plus they are not as well built as the older homes as they usually use softwood frames and have questionable styling practices such as high box gutters which overflow into the wall instead of outside the house.



Mobydisc
Mobydisc
NSW
9029 posts
NSW, 9029 posts
28 Jul 2011 6:52pm
choco said...

housing is very affordable in the country what you pay for average house in the city would get yourself nice pad out of town.
http://www.realestate.com.au/buy/in-barmera%2c+sa/list-1


What sort of work is available in Bamera?

As the article mentions, Sydney is pretty expensive but that is mostly due to the large number of well paid jobs available there.

Unfortunately this logic doesn't really apply to the total housing market. The area I grew up had cheap housing along with low incomes and high unemployment. Today its all changed, housing is expensive despite the continued low incomes and high unemployment.



laceys lane
laceys lane
QLD
19804 posts
QLD, 19804 posts
28 Jul 2011 6:56pm
Mobydisc said...

What these sorts of reports don't really mention is the cost of building and land has skyrocketed over the last couple of decades. Back in the 80s and earlier building contractors were paid cash. They didn't have toilets onsite, workers would piss behind the tree or whatever. There wasn't any OH&S regulations. Builders didn't have to put fences up all over the place. Superannuation wasn't an issue as well as workers compensation. Building codes not as complex.

Since that time all these sort of government regulations have come in. All this stuff costs builders and building contractors time and money. Building is now a very government regulated industry which means extra costs passed onto the customer.

At the same time local and state governments have put in place all sorts of levies such as footpath levies that raises the cost of building.

Meanwhile governments have passed on the cost of opening up land to developers who pass the costs onto the customer.

Also houses are becoming bigger and more luxurious. I'd imagine it would be quite difficult to get a small two or one bedroom house to be built by a project builder.
It would be interesting to see the cost of building an average 3 bedroom brick veneer house in the 70s compared to today.






and cut throat profits. it amuses me when the bsa release media telling people due to the downturn you will get very good costings for building projects.

but in reality, contractors are losing money as soon as they step out of the car so they cut corners. like a tiler can buy glue for up to say $40 or $15 a bag. if they have been screwed which bag are they going to buy.this also applies to trade practises.

the bsa has a huge list of complaints they are struggling to cope with due mainly to cut throat competition for jobs by contractors and supplier imo- i reall don't have an answer for that one. lots of insurance payouts too. so thats going to add to costs.

the red tape, fees, forms, codes, new monthly regulations to comply and item completion certificates that use to be a engineer and roof trusses report now can number up to 15 to 20 and big stick waving add to costs. a small builder would need to stay a home one day a week to keep up with it all. now that,s a additional cost. i have absolutely no confidence in the bsa or state goverment- they have no idea of the reality for the domestic house building industry. i'm sure they think builders are taking $50 grand plus profits on basic lower cost houses

if you did complied with every single regulation and safty requirement you wouldn't get a contract and thats a fact. theres the stress if some do gooding goverment man decides he's got your number

geez its a house not a high rise.

stop giving building numbers to people that aren't at least trade.

not much can be done to stop spiraling materail costs, but the goverments can be doing a lot more instead of treating the housing industry as a cash cow
every interview i've read with builders states red tape as the main issue.

some major changes have to be implemented before houses become affordable- recession or no recession

poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
28 Jul 2011 5:05pm
Our families are getting smaller but our houses are getting bigger.
Go figure?
Cassa
Cassa
WA
1305 posts
WA, 1305 posts
28 Jul 2011 6:19pm
It as affordable, IF , you do the homework ,plan correctly, prepare yourself for Hard work that is involved.it can be fun as well, satisfaction knowing what you can do without forking out the big bucks!

I built this 7 yrs ago, total cost including 10mtr pool and paving, AND land, was $255,000.









I know costs have increased dramaticly since then , but I have done the maths on my next house and , should I should have it locked up, not painted , no gardens or paving, for $210,000, that will do me for now
log man
log man
VIC
8289 posts
VIC, 8289 posts
28 Jul 2011 8:33pm
^^^^ Casa Cassa
laceys lane
laceys lane
QLD
19804 posts
QLD, 19804 posts
28 Jul 2011 8:34pm
nice, well done. in 2000 i built a highset home for a client at $116,000. however costings spiraled pretty quickly in qld soon after
pierrec45
pierrec45
NSW
2005 posts
NSW, 2005 posts
28 Jul 2011 8:58pm
Pugwash said...


The graph does not show a fall to 1990s prices. It is forecasting that the house price and annual income ratio will fall to around 5:1. This may be a function of decreasing price (or stagnent price) and increasing salary.

You're right of course, I had read it like so too, just didn't word it well.
But I still don't see, not one bit. Perhaps 2 curves in the graph: one for expected housing prices and one for salary growth (?) would have given a hint into the thinking.

Perhaps too per major cities, as the curves would be different.

In the end, I still don't see...
pierrec45
pierrec45
NSW
2005 posts
NSW, 2005 posts
28 Jul 2011 9:07pm
poor relative said...

Our families are getting smaller but our houses are getting bigger.
Go figure?

There was an interesting research published last year, involving some 8 major cities in the world, regarding this 'phenomenon'. Seemed serious then, and certainly more detailed than the "don't worry, you will afford houses in 10 years" thing we saw yesterday.

Conclusion was: direct correlation between divorce rate and said observation.
Rationale was (still from memory, too lazy to chase article) that when one splits, a 5-bedroom large house, say, becomes a 5- plus a 4-, should the missus keep the old abode. Or if not then a 4- and a 4-. In either case, both parents often need to accommodate the same number of kids, only a part-time basis. And/or both parents wanting to maintain lifestyle, i.e. house, they were accustomed to.

This logic was accentuated for reconstituted families, or whatever the hell they're PC-called nowadays, as the number of children, hence the size required, could be even greater.

It's a charming society we live in.
MIKO
MIKO
QLD
408 posts
QLD, 408 posts
28 Jul 2011 9:28pm
Not yet
I built a house 6 years ago for around 800 a square no extras, the same builder today qouting 1300 - 1500
cpi we are told between 2-4 % go figure.
I think up here, the you beaut mining boom has sucked out of the community good people, tradesman etc, meaning greater demand, increased cost, corner cutting.
laceys lane
laceys lane
QLD
19804 posts
QLD, 19804 posts
28 Jul 2011 9:54pm
MIKO said...

Not yet
I built a house 6 years ago for around 800 a square no extras, the same builder today qouting 1300 - 1500
cpi we are told between 2-4 % go figure.
I think up here, the you beaut mining boom has sucked out of the community good people, tradesman etc, meaning greater demand, increased cost, corner cutting.


miko, most tradies are going mining because of the lack or construction and the rates/price for any work around are back to the nineties. i was looking at item on on of those links right up the top which is relevent i think
Developer of sydney Posted at 4:54 PM Today

im a developer and we recently wanted to build some "affordable housing" near transport (train and bus stops) it was near a big shopping centre.. the MAJOR problem is, people do not want this form of housing to be built next to them (NIMBY)..when the local residents get vocal about it, they start going to the media, getting petitions signed, they start to rally the local councillors, then the council listens to them, council then refuse the DA.. THAT IS THE PROBLEM!! council will not allow us developers to build affordable housing!


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/money/property/australians-still-nurture-home-ownership-dream-despite-massive-hike-in-house-values/story-e6frfmd0-1226103146725#ixzz1TOctykz7
superlizard
superlizard
VIC
702 posts
VIC, 702 posts
29 Jul 2011 9:58am
Very affordable houses still available:

- includes garage
- double story
- pavement
- fencing
- even some garden



dusta
dusta
WA
2940 posts
WA, 2940 posts
29 Jul 2011 9:53am
Cassa said...


I built this 7 yrs ago, total cost including 10mtr pool and paving, AND land, was $255,000.






what suburb ?

I would hazard a guess somewhere out towards an outer metro area suburb .
felixdcat
felixdcat
WA
3519 posts
WA, 3519 posts
29 Jul 2011 9:53am
superlizard said...

Very affordable houses still available:

- includes garage
- double story
- pavement
- fencing
- even some garden





It is cheap but it is only because it is DIY! Try to get a builder on the job!
kyteryder
kyteryder
NSW
692 posts
NSW, 692 posts
29 Jul 2011 12:46pm
A mate of mine, builds granny flats. Self Contained houses for $90k Complete. Rents in Sydney are ridiculous. People are renting them out for about $350k per week.

Great investment if you ask me, if i had the spare land on my block I would give it a go.

FlySurfer
FlySurfer
NSW
4460 posts
NSW, 4460 posts
29 Jul 2011 3:30pm
Cassa said...

It as affordable, IF , you do the homework ,plan correctly, prepare yourself for Hard work that is involved.it can be fun as well, satisfaction knowing what you can do without forking out the big bucks!

I built this 7 yrs ago, total cost including 10mtr pool and paving, AND land, was $255,000.




Sweet, I'll take 2 of them.

FlySurfer
FlySurfer
NSW
4460 posts
Mobydisc
Mobydisc
NSW
9029 posts
NSW, 9029 posts
29 Jul 2011 6:00pm
kyteryder said...

A mate of mine, builds granny flats. Self Contained houses for $90k Complete. Rents in Sydney are ridiculous. People are renting them out for about $350k per week.

Great investment if you ask me, if i had the spare land on my block I would give it a go.




We did a similar thing last year on a house we bought on the central coast. We built a little self contained flat downstairs. It cost us in total about $35k to do it as we did most of the work ourselves over two months. We've been renting it out no problem for $160 a week. That's more than the rent on my first investment property rented out 10 years ago and that is a 3 bedroom brick veneer house.

Cassa
Cassa
WA
1305 posts
WA, 1305 posts
29 Jul 2011 4:53pm
FlySurfer said...

Cassa said...

It as affordable, IF , you do the homework ,plan correctly, prepare yourself for Hard work that is involved.it can be fun as well, satisfaction knowing what you can do without forking out the big bucks!

I built this 7 yrs ago, total cost including 10mtr pool and paving, AND land, was $255,000.




Sweet, I'll take 2 of them.




$ 570,00 and it"s yours
dusta
dusta
WA
2940 posts
WA, 2940 posts
29 Jul 2011 5:49pm
rough area cassa ?


Any money that was nowhere near the cbd .

looks like a new development to me . Yanchep or something similar


Nice looking house though
Cassa
Cassa
WA
1305 posts
WA, 1305 posts
29 Jul 2011 6:33pm
dusta said...

rough area cassa ?


Any money that was nowhere near the cbd .

looks like a new development to me . Yanchep or something similar


Nice looking house though


Mariners Cove , Mandurah,
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
29 Jul 2011 8:19pm
poor relative said...

Our families are getting smaller but our houses are getting bigger.
Go figure?


lol.
Right-on. ^^^

Folks need lots of rooms to store all the stupid junk they buy everyday.

saltiest1
saltiest1
NSW
2568 posts
NSW, 2568 posts
29 Jul 2011 11:43pm
^^^ yeah the windsurfing sux here, and the surf is worse than perth too. better stay away
saltiest1
saltiest1
NSW
2568 posts
NSW, 2568 posts
29 Jul 2011 11:45pm
dont start me on how bad the diving and spearfishing is either!
FormulaNova
FormulaNova
WA
15100 posts
WA, 15100 posts
29 Jul 2011 9:59pm
saltiest1 said...

^^^ yeah the windsurfing sux here, and the surf is worse than perth too. better stay away


Well it did last season anyway.
FlySurfer
FlySurfer
NSW
4460 posts
NSW, 4460 posts
30 Jul 2011 10:53am
Cassa said...

FlySurfer said...
Sweet, I'll take 2 of them.


$ 570,00 and it"s yours


$570 for 2? And can I kite in Peel Inlet? How long would it take to drive to the CBD on a Monday morning?
saltiest1
saltiest1
NSW
2568 posts
NSW, 2568 posts
30 Jul 2011 10:48pm
FormulaNova said...

saltiest1 said...

^^^ yeah the windsurfing sux here, and the surf is worse than perth too. better stay away


Well it did last season anyway.


so ive heard. dont know where they were though. i had a great one
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