Cork Flooring Nightmare!

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kp96890
kp96890
VIC
4 posts
VIC, 4 posts
1 Jun 2011 3:08pm
Hi Everyone,
I am wanting to gauge some opinions about cork flooring and find out if anyone is in the same boat as me...recently I had a coloured cork product laid in our kitchen, lounge and hallway. Since day one we haven't been happy with the product and the business we dealt with was initially very supportive until they found out that the manufacturer wasn't going to put their money where their mouth is so to speak. That was when we were basically told 'bad luck'. Here are our issues:
-The floor has extensive denting from even very light furniture (I dropped a 90g tin of tuna the other day and it dented!).
-The floor is very discoloured particularly in the joins of the cork tiles where it looks like the natural colour is coming through the prefinished white surface. This makes the whole floor look very dirty.
-The floor has stained, this is despite the business knowing they were laying it in a wet area.
At this point in time it looks like we are heading to VCAT to resolve the issue as the business who laid the floor has been quite disgusting to deal with and made the whole process extremely stressful.

Has anyone else heard of these issues or know whether this is a manufacturing issue or an installation issue? I would appreciate any assistance anyone might be able to offer.
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
1 Jun 2011 1:48pm
Not quite the same, but...

My parents had a cork floor in their house which lasted for over 20 years. When it came time to replace it with tiles, they had an absolute devil of a job getting the glue off the concrete. If you don't clean every tiny last trace of glue off, then the tiles won't stick properly. A couple of years after the tiles were installed several of them had unstuck themselves and sounded hollow if you dropped a coin or something on them.

Ours was just a natural cork colour with a clear lacquer over the top, so don't know about the prefinished white colouration... I do know that it dented easily but as the colour was stippled anyway it didn't show up. Water did tend to discolour it (made it go darker) as well. It's the nature of the beast I think.

I would never consider cork flooring ever, no matter where it was being installed. Bit late for you now I guess...

So anyway if you're thinking about pulling the lot up and replacing it with tiles, bear in mind that it's a massive undertaking.
ockanui
ockanui
VIC
1321 posts
VIC, 1321 posts
1 Jun 2011 4:15pm
based upon the info given, firstly cork is a soft low density product absorbant product usually approx 6mm thick tiles layed upon a masonite substrate, it is by no means a hard product, I guess that is why they make cork notice boards.. so scratch and denting or bruising will occur when objects are dropped or heavy objects are placed for a period of time, the discolouring maybe something to do with the cleaning products used or may be subject to UV, as for staining in wet areas unless a coat of urethene is applied and therefore the joins sealed, water from showers etc will penetrate the joins if left to sit this would go with any liquid be it red wine or nail polish.
Maybe some homework should have been done to ensure the right product was chosen, ie tiles vinyl, I have renovated many homes and removed cork flooring quite often stained or damaged from continual use, as for Vcat well its up to you but in my opinion commonsense should prevail and you should change the floor to one that suits the use. your wasting VCAT's time, if you have the money to go to VCAT then you have the money to change the flooring it would be cheaper and less stressful, but then you may just want to puff up and beat your chest, sorry I have been in the building game to long
felixdcat
felixdcat
WA
3519 posts
WA, 3519 posts
1 Jun 2011 2:31pm
I have been in the flooring coating and sealing business for a few years, I know it is very easy to sand and recoat cork and it will look 1million dollars, you need to use the right sealer and finish, I used to deal and supply a few timber /cork flooring companies, if you need advice I would recommend VCS in Osie Park they are very knowledgeable and helpful and have flooring contractors working for them.
kp96890
kp96890
VIC
4 posts
VIC, 4 posts
1 Jun 2011 4:59pm
Actually we have been very careful with our floor and only cleaned it with the recommended spray and applicator that we purchased after installation. As far as doing our homework we did, the only problem is we believed what the owner of the store told us as he assured us of what a fantastic product the new coloured cork is. We have since found out that our floor was only the second one laid by this business (a couple of days apart) and they ruined the first floor by sanding away the painted colour, this is a new product that has a thin coloured layer that you cannot sand. So they had to pull up that floor. We have our doubts as to whether our floor was installed and/or sealed properly which I don't think is through any fault of ours.

This certainly isn't an issue of me beating my chest it is more an issue of me getting a floor that I was promised. I feel we were told what was needed to sell the new product and then when the floor turned out to be not as we were told we were simply told bad luck. I have several friends with 'normal' cork floors which look fantastic and normal cork floors can be sanded and recoated and they look absolutely gorgeous...however ours doesn't even compare. If you can imagine an off white coloured floor with patches of original cork colour coming through it you will be on you way to imagining what our floor looks like, not quite what we were shown as a sample product in the store. I haven't mentioned the store or the manufacturer I just want to know if other people have dealt with coloured cork and had issues, it is not the same as normal cork. It has already been an expensive process with this cork product not being cheap and we spent years saving for our dream renovation which went very well except the installation of our floor. Also to go to VCAT it is less than $50 for the hearing so I don't think that will cover the cost of a new floor.
Sailhack
Sailhack
VIC
5000 posts
VIC, 5000 posts
1 Jun 2011 5:10pm
pics or it didn't happen...
GalahOnTheBay
GalahOnTheBay
NSW
4188 posts
NSW, 4188 posts
1 Jun 2011 5:14pm
If the supplier is being painful don't muck around with them - go straight to VCAT, preferably with a log of your efforts to get this resolved and the supplier's actions / responses.

Most suppliers rely on the fact that a lot of people can't be bothered with / don't know about VCAT.

Pulling up cork floors that have been glued to concrete is a hassle and pretty messy, but there is a special tool for the job that has a thing that looks like a paint scraper attached to a long (broom length) handle. Trick is it only works if you have smooth and flat concrete underneath.
kp96890
kp96890
VIC
4 posts
VIC, 4 posts
1 Jun 2011 5:22pm
It is a bit hard to tell from the photo but what was supposed to be a white/off white floor has what looks like dirty marks in all the joins and alongside the joins. This is the actual natural cork colour coming through. Every edge of nearly every tile looks like this after they were laid. The sample we viewed looked nothing like this. So my whole floor looks dirty...does that mean I don't have to clean it

I just wanted a floor that looked like the sample and performed as an original cork floor, like we were promised. Didn't think it would be this hard or stressful.

frant
frant
VIC
1230 posts
VIC, 1230 posts
1 Jun 2011 5:34pm
kp96890 said...

It is a bit hard to tell from the photo but what was supposed to be a white/off white floor has what looks like dirty marks in all the joins and alongside the joins. This is the actual natural cork colour coming through. Every edge of nearly every tile looks like this after they were laid. The sample we viewed looked nothing like this. So my whole floor looks dirty...does that mean I don't have to clean it

I just wanted a floor that looked like the sample and performed as an original cork floor, like we were promised. Didn't think it would be this hard or stressful.




What were you thinking? I think that cork is a fantastic floor finish and have used it extensively. However the tiles have to be glued down, the surface sanded and finished with a sealer. How on earth were you expecting a soft cork tile with a thin colour surface to be able to be sanded smooth? and then how did you think a sealer was going to be applied over the colour?
kp96890
kp96890
VIC
4 posts
VIC, 4 posts
1 Jun 2011 5:49pm
Again this is a new product that is supposedly prefinished and is not to be sanded. The tiles are glued down. Again the floor was sold and installed by a 'professional'. At what point as a consumer should you know more about a product than the person selling it? How can a manager of a large chain store sell and install this product but take no responsibility for how it turns out? We could only go by what we were told in the store and what is on the manufacturer's website. But I agree it is terrible! Our kitchen, hallway and lounge look like this!

By the way the store we were dealing with no longer even stocks this type of flooring...but there is no problem with it and it is not their responsibility??? How does that work?
SandS
SandS
VIC
5904 posts
VIC, 5904 posts
1 Jun 2011 7:38pm

prefinished cork tile ! mmm ... the joint will always be visable !!

no joy from the retailer/installer , what about the manufacturer ? get stuck into them also!!
GPA
GPA
WA
2529 posts
GPA GPA
WA, 2529 posts
1 Jun 2011 6:35pm
SandS said...


prefinished cork tile ! mmm ... the joint will always be visable !!

no joy from the retailer/installer , what about the manufacturer ? get stuck into them also!!


I agree - I would also be pursuing the manufacturer... (or importer).

I feel your frustration - I'd be pissed off to say the least...

Good luck - don't give up easily (as has been said before, that's what 1/2 of them rely on).
BarryDawson
BarryDawson
WA
175 posts
WA, 175 posts
1 Jun 2011 8:13pm
We had exactly the same miserable experience with 200 square meters of prefinished bamboo flooring that we had layed about two years ago.

Just as in your case we were advised of all the so called benefits such as no sanding, 75 percent harder than jarrah, easy to clean etc etc. All turned out to be the sales pitch, 75 percent harder than jarrah, sure, on the end grain [}:)] you dont walk on the end grain you walk on the butter soft prefinished face! Easy to clean, I don't think so, how do you get the dirt build up out from between the boards because it hasn't been filled with sealer after sanding.

We had major water damage after the March 2010 hail storm to the whole of the house which meant the floor needed water damage repair. No one could match the floor where it was to be patched after only being down for about 18 months because they did not have any stock left of that batch [}:)]

The whole 200 square meters then needed to be removed including the staircase[}:)][}:)][}:)]

What a job.................. it took 3 days......... four guys turned up at 7.00am the first morning and created the biggest mess then at 10.00am they all went for smoko...... only one returned! They punctured the gas feed line in the top stair on the concrete staircase and the whole stair had to be removed for the plumber to effect a repair[}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)]

Ten guys walked off the job in three days, one smashed rear window glass, damaged every wall they worked against, one guy washed and prayed to Allah (I think) on our front lawn for 30 minutes before he did any work, then worked for fifteen minutes before he said it was too hard and drove off and we rushed one guy to Joondalup hospital who was working on the front step who was having chest pains. He was having a heart attack [}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)]

Stress and flooring just go hand in hand[}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)]

Total cost to remove and replace.... about $30,000!!!!!! about $5000 was the removal
GypsyDrifter
GypsyDrifter
WA
2371 posts
WA, 2371 posts
1 Jun 2011 8:31pm
Oh my goodness what a story ^^^^
BarryDawson
BarryDawson
WA
175 posts
WA, 175 posts
1 Jun 2011 8:35pm
GypsyDrifter said...

Oh my goodness what a story ^^^^


Man I'm stressed just thinking about it.

Moral of the story is I want everyone to know DO NOT BUY BAMBOO FLOORING
ockanui
ockanui
VIC
1321 posts
VIC, 1321 posts
1 Jun 2011 10:45pm
Barry, welcome to the building industry, unfortunately the story about the flooring is somewhat a typical one of what may happen in the Industry, there are some really good businesses and tradespeople and then there are some really F***** bad ones who could not give a s****, well almost, I did site management on a multi unit site, up to the stage of fit off and painting, the plumber was fitting off bathrooms when guess what someone had done a crap in a toilet that was clearly, not connected.....two words of advice....never assume
saltiest1
saltiest1
NSW
2568 posts
NSW, 2568 posts
1 Jun 2011 11:11pm
ockanui said...

Barry, welcome to the building industry, unfortunately the story about the flooring is somewhat a typical one of what may happen in the Industry, there are some really good businesses and tradespeople and then there are some really F***** bad ones who could not give a s****, well almost, I did site management on a multi unit site, up to the stage of fit off and painting, the plumber was fitting off bathrooms when guess what someone had done a crap in a toilet that was clearly, not connected.....two words of advice....never assume




i used to cop that all the time. idiots.
GypsyDrifter
GypsyDrifter
WA
2371 posts
WA, 2371 posts
1 Jun 2011 9:13pm
Well I am looking forward to owner build our home now! "not"
BarryDawson
BarryDawson
WA
175 posts
WA, 175 posts
1 Jun 2011 9:15pm
ockanui said...

Barry, welcome to the building industry, unfortunately the story about the flooring is somewhat a typical one of what may happen in the Industry, there are some really good businesses and tradespeople and then there are some really F***** bad ones who could not give a s****, well almost, I did site management on a multi unit site, up to the stage of fit off and painting, the plumber was fitting off bathrooms when guess what someone had done a crap in a toilet that was clearly, not connected.....two words of advice....never assume


Like Brett Heady bag insulation... was told it was R3.5 and purchased it. Only R3.5 when layed on it's end not how it was layed flat like pillows which made it useless. Pulled it out of two storeys and I layed it correctly in the double carport which it only just filled[}:)][}:)][}:)]
BarryDawson
BarryDawson
WA
175 posts
WA, 175 posts
1 Jun 2011 9:30pm
Then there was the time when the registered plumber fitted our shower rose to the reno'd bathroom. He left it loose without thread tape didn't he [}:)] 3 or 4 months later I get a phone call at work from the kids that there is water running out of the toilet light switch The wet seal insulated the bathroom and the cavity filled to the light switch where the water was running out from [}:)][}:)][}:)]

Did I tell you the one about the 'Master" painter!!!!!!!!!!!

I now have a very short list of excellent quality tradies that I will only use, it took a long time to find them but these guys are awesome
gs12
gs12
WA
426 posts
WA, 426 posts
1 Jun 2011 9:57pm
don't know if this helps but both my brother & mum have cork installed throughout their respective households (incl. kitchen, living rooms, bedrooms + small kids, dogs etc) and had no problems whatsover, it's been there for 6-7 years I think.

It doesn't look like yours though, it looks like you have cork tiles/cork floating floor of some sort and theirs look like continuous cork surface with lot more colour and texture

Mind you, they live in Europe and when I was looking at doing the same thing in Perth few years ago the same product wasn't available, only the tiles (like yours) and they did not look that great to me.

I also recall they had to prepare the surface prior laying it to make it level and the cork has been sealed with clear polyurethane lacquer.

It looks like you have some sort of floating floor and I don't think they are a particulary great flooring solution (IMHO - I'm not a flooring expert, just a personal opionion).
If that's the case I'd go with a poor installation of (and I'm sorry to say) not a great product... but it's hard to tell from the pictures.

I'm not sure this helps
theDoctor
theDoctor
NSW
5786 posts
NSW, 5786 posts
2 Jun 2011 12:10am


ouch, here's the deal

pay as little as a deposit as you can get away with...

anyone who has had to deal with cants of big business knows they play on 120 days before payment..

do the same..

then you got 120 days to see how your product pans out before you (as an honest an reliable citizen of the community, who would pay an honest dollar for an honest job) tell them, hey we got a problem here and if you don't fix it, you don't get the rest of your money....

let them take you as far as they threaten you...

then cite them costs for the touble you incur for unsatisfactory work/workmanship

you get what you pay for

busterwa
busterwa
3782 posts
3782 posts
1 Jun 2011 11:10pm
NO_CORK_FLOORING_EXISTS
Cassa
Cassa
WA
1305 posts
WA, 1305 posts
2 Jun 2011 6:53am
BarryDawson said...

GypsyDrifter said...

Oh my goodness what a story ^^^^


Man I'm stressed just thinking about it.

Moral of the story is I want everyone to know DO NOT BUY BAMBOO FLOORING


+1
BarryDawson
BarryDawson
WA
175 posts
WA, 175 posts
2 Jun 2011 11:34am
theDoctor said...



ouch, here's the deal

pay as little as a deposit as you can get away with...

anyone who has had to deal with cants of big business knows they play on 120 days before payment..

do the same..

then you got 120 days to see how your product pans out before you (as an honest an reliable citizen of the community, who would pay an honest dollar for an honest job) tell them, hey we got a problem here and if you don't fix it, you don't get the rest of your money....

let them take you as far as they threaten you...

then cite them costs for the touble you incur for unsatisfactory work/workmanship

you get what you pay for




Hi Doc

That is a good system which is used in such instances where you are dealing with the likes of project home builders or home improvement companies.

When you are renovating a home and you only need a brick paver or floor layed or tiling done the normal process is to purchase the goods as the tradesman usually won't. The tradesman have been caught in the past where for example the brick paver after receiving a deposit purchased the pavers and then the customer changed their mind, now the tradesman is stuck with the product. He can't now shift the product for what ever reason, wrong colour, not enough, too many, batch doesn't match etc etc etc. Also, should the product being installed have an issue the tradesman wants to be able to be at arms length from it.

The supplier of the product will suggest a few installers of your product but usually not arrange all of the work for you. They are only interested in the sale of the product not the instal, this way they are kept at arms length from the total job and minimise exposure to themselves should there be a problem.

Then once you have received your product the likes of tiles, timber or cork the tradesmen come in and instal the product. They want payment on completion and once completed looks a million bucks. It's generally not until there has been some time passing with wear and tear that the problems start to appear and by then your cheque has been well and truly spent. Trying to get them back after they have been paid is next to immpossible.




GPA
GPA
WA
2529 posts
GPA GPA
WA, 2529 posts
2 Jun 2011 2:40pm
Sadly, I can tell you that it is no better in Commercial Construction - even when there is a proper contract in place.

I had to have ALL the plumbing in a commercial cafe kitchen completely removed and replaced because the DH that did the job made such a mess of it that not one component met either specification or code and it was unfit to tenant. Cost us about $15k to fix, and we effectively paid twice to get what we had specified. And this job was supposedly being supervised by the Builder's project manager and site supervisor.

We are now going through the legal process because we have withheld final payment based on so many incomplete, inferior and defective items, yet the builder is claiming monies owed on extension of time and various supposed 'client variation'. FFS!
the gibbo
the gibbo
WA
776 posts
WA, 776 posts
2 Jun 2011 4:02pm
kp sorry for your dilema, sounds like you got bad advice in the first place. Sounds/looks like the wrong product for the job, some crew will do or say anything to get a sale.

There are alot of s@@t trades all over the world, our deal is if they dont come reccomended or you cant see previous work(samples dont count) dont use them.

Bamboo has its place aswell, they will never tell you dirt gets caught in the joins because its pre-finished. Thats why its cheaper cos its finished by a machine in a factory by 8 year old kids.

If its cheap it is !
I am a builder, ethical and honest, if anyone needs help p mess me i will try.



BarryDawson
BarryDawson
WA
175 posts
WA, 175 posts
2 Jun 2011 8:57pm
the gibbo said...

Bamboo has its place


Hi Gibbo

I am not a builder nor profess to be one but where is the place for Bamboo? I just can't imagine there is one??? Surely cork due to it's softness would be in the same boat in relation to flooring unless you are wanting a severely distressed look.

In our situation with a wife with high heels, two teenage kids the dog and two cats it sure doesn't have it's place here!
the gibbo
the gibbo
WA
776 posts
WA, 776 posts
4 Jun 2011 4:55pm
Youve had a bad experience and that is f??ked, you recieved the same bad advice as kp.

All pre-finished flooring products are never as good as sand and polish on site that is why they are cheaper/faster, simple as that.
Simondo
Simondo
VIC
8025 posts
VIC, 8025 posts
4 Jun 2011 7:55pm
Cork - a bit 1975... but a great feel under foot, a natural product, with great insulation. We had a natural brown / light brown cork floor growing up, with a waxed finish.... I think we broken up to 1 glass on it in 20 years. Glass and crockery just bounced off! No breaks....

VCAT - not too much experience, but I have nearly 20 years experience in the greater building and infrastructure arena. If you want to go to VCAT, they will be looking at basic legal documents to start with... If you don't have that in order, you will be at risk at falling over at the first step.... (I'm not a lawyer either though!).

There are always times when a product is young.... and in this case, it seems that it doesn't have too much to do with the installer. You claim would up against the supplier. The supplier and their insurer aren't going to roll over either.... or are unlikely to roll over.... Tough work going through VCAT.... also ask yourself if it is worth the effort, and you own time, and lost time.... Is it easier to move on with a new product in a year or two, when you are really sick of it....

An applied "milky" paint/membrane finish, self applied (test patches on the spares first - and good clean down and light sand before coating).... well this might be an easier and cheaper fix than stuffing around for VCAT.... It might add 1-3 years to the product before starting again...

Even ultra hard, hardwood timbers, will dent and scratch. I have Spotted Gum, which is pretty damn hard, and my family & dog give it a pounding.... We call it character.... Life isn't perfect....
Cassa
Cassa
WA
1305 posts
WA, 1305 posts
4 Jun 2011 8:47pm
GypsyDrifter said...

Well I am looking forward to owner build our home now! "not"


Dont be scared , it's the only way to go if you don't want to give money away,
I' m always willing to help.
after all it's what I do
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